"Bravery for them is, well, I can sack 12,000 people and I can do it in an email at 9:30 on a Monday morning. That's not bravery, that's cowardice. I would look them in their face and go, you're a coward. Just because you've got the power…it doesn't make you brave at all."
When is a "brave" decision really just avoiding humanity? David McQueen, leadership consultant, speaker, and author joins me for a provocative and honest conversation about change, leadership, and the myth of bravery at work.
We discuss the doors that open when you seize terrifying opportunities like leaping into national TV late in life and why fame isn't always what it seems. David shares his passion for helping leaders make better, more human decisions, and the legacy he hopes to leave through empowering others, not being centre stage himself.
Highlights:
00:00 Bravery vs. cowardice in leadership
02:32 Who is David McQueen?
03:40 Why we keep making the same mistakes
06:23 TV, Channel 4, TED Global, and working with Richard Branson
10:05 Why David chose impact over fame
13:26 The real legacy: empowering others, not being centre stage
14:19 "Personal brand" is capitalism, why David McQueen resists it
16:11 Using humour to create safety and challenge bias on stage
19:00 Why relatable storytelling beats "superhuman" motivation
22:18 Mistakes, vulnerability, and creating genuine connection
30:18 Writing "Brave" and the problem with "boldness"
36:12 Systemic barriers and why most senior men aren't equipped to lead women
38:19 Why "bold" doesn't mean harmful, true courage is facing discomfort
44:22 Curiosity, creativity, and the dangers of a frictionless, AI-driven world
51:38 Why we need tension and real argument to stay human.
David's Change Toolkit:
Book: Parable of the Sower by Octavia Butler (plus The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho and On Writing by Stephen King)
Soundtrack: "Breezin" by George Benson & The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill by Lauryn Hill
One piece of advice: "Live full and die empty" - take all the opportunities you can to make the most of life, and leave nothing behind.
About David:
David McQueen works with CEOs and founder-owners on the decisions that shape the future of their organisations. His work spans advisory, speaking, and leadership development, all grounded in a body of thinking focused on how leaders decide well when the stakes are high.
He is the author of The BRAVE Leader, a study of leadership in conditions of uncertainty: the characteristics that allow leaders to navigate complexity with clarity and the habits that quietly undermine them.
His advisory work focuses on three areas where the quality of thinking and judgement has an outsized impact on what happens next: scaling, capital, and succession. His speaking reaches senior leadership audiences across sectors and geographies through keynotes and masterclasses.
He has worked with organisations across financial services, technology, consumer, professional services, and the third sector, at every stage from early-scale to pre-exit.
Connect with David:
Website: https://davidmcqueen.co.uk/
Work with Eleanor
Buy the Book - Another Door Opens; 5 steps for navigating change. Described as 'Game changing' 'Brilliant' 'A must read' 'The best book on change'.
Eleanor supports individuals, teams and organisations through change. Whether it's coaching or large scale organisational change through communications and training.
Work with Eleanor 121 as your coach, when you are starting something new, to develop the idea, to create the idea, to get it launched.
Book in a Change Mastery for a team session - when your team is navigating change.
Book in a 90 minute workshop - to think through change at work.
Instagram:instagram/anotherdooruk
LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/eleanor-tweddell/
Website: www.another-door-opens.com
Produced by winteraudio.co.uk
