There are thousands of software companies chasing the same small pool of brands on Shopify, and AI is quietly dismantling the bloated app stacks those brands built. Neal Goyal has spent eight or nine years inside ecommerce software, leading sales teams at names like Tapcart, and he now advises five or six earlier-stage software companies on how to grow. From that vantage point he's watching the "uninstall rate" surge as founders ask a new question of every app they pay for. Do I even need a tool for this at all?
In this conversation Neal walks through how the ecosystem commoditised in three waves, why agentic commerce is about to change the rules again, and why the answer for anxious founders is bracingly old-school. Stop chasing the shiny object, do the Business 101, and invest in the human relationships AI can't fake. Matt shares how his own software subscriptions have roughly halved while the amount his team builds with Claude Code has doubled, including a mobile conversion rate now 400 to 500% higher after a few hours of work.
In this episode
- [13:38] How so many apps ended up chasing so few brands
- [23:04] The great uninstall and why brands are tearing apps out
- [26:26] Shiny object syndrome and the case for Business 101
- [29:30] What the app stack can't replace
- [45:02] Neal's single best tip for anyone in the ecosystem
How So Many Apps Ended Up Chasing So Few Brands
[13:38]
To understand why app stacks are collapsing, you have to understand how they got so big. Neal breaks the commoditisation of ecommerce software into three waves.
The first was COVID. Brands on Shopify went from two million to four million "in a hot second", and an equally fast race kicked off to build the software companies that served them. The count roughly doubled from 5,000 to 10,000 almost overnight.
The second wave was AI as an engineering tool, around early 2023. Suddenly four people in a basement could ship a compelling, high-quality product in 90 days and offer it cheaply. Every category, from loyalty to reviews to mobile apps, got disrupted by a player built almost overnight. The count climbed again, from 10,000 to 15,000 in roughly a year.
The third wave is the one we're in now, and Neal thinks we're only at the start of it. Part of it is agentic commerce, the idea that forcing a customer to visit a website, add to cart and fill in checkout details is already starting to feel archaic.
"We don't really know what it's gonna be today. All we know is it's gonna be different than it is today." — Neal Goyal
The other part is what's already on your desk. The ability for the average person, with no engineering background, to build their own software. The effect of all three waves is the same. There is an alternative for everything, loyalty is thin, and a brand can sign off a tool as fast as it signed on.
The Great Uninstall and Why Brands Are Tearing Apps Out
[23:04]
Most Shopify brands didn't start with a business background. They started at the kitchen table with a dream and a Shopify account, and they figured it out as they went. Neal describes it as building the plane while they flew it, "like putting duct tape on the wings as it's taking off." Every new challenge, from COVID to tariffs to iOS 14, was met by looking left and right and asking the person next to you what they were doing.
AI hasn't changed that instinct. It's supercharged it.
"We've all become superhuman in our own light." — Neal Goyal
The reflex that used to be "which tool solves this?" is now "do I even need a tool for this at all?" And the result is showing up in the numbers.
"The uninstall rate of software tools in the last 90 days is huge." — Neal Goyal
Brands are quietly asking of each subscription, do I really need this, was my business really suffering without it, what value is it actually giving me. Neal is clear this isn't a bleak picture. It's a shift in mentality happening across the ecosystem, and he expects that mentality to look different again 90 days from now.
Shiny Object Syndrome and the Case for Business 101
[26:26]
The ecosystem suffers from a chronic condition Neal calls shiny object syndrome, and AI is its newest and brightest object.
"You bat your eyes and all of a sudden, next thing you know, you have this incredibly bloated tech stack." — Neal Goyal
The temptation right now is to believe that if you're not adopting every new AI tool the moment it lands, you're falling irreversibly behind. Neal doesn't buy it. There will be early adopters who benefit and pull ahead, but the learning curve is going to be gradual, because this is not a fad passing through.
"At the end of the day, we are still selling a physical good here. We're still selling a t-shirt. We're still selling a supplement." — Neal Goyal
His advice for the anxious founder is the opposite of urgency. You're almost certainly not behind. You only feel that way because of the few loud voices on LinkedIn and Instagram talking about it. The danger isn't that you're too slow to adopt AI. It's that you chase the shiny object instead of doing the unglamorous Business 101 that actually moves the needle.
What the App Stack Can't Replace
[29:30]
If software is commoditising and stacks are shrinking, what's left to compete on? Neal's answer is the part most people assume AI makes obsolete. The human stuff. As tools get more similar, the decision about which one to buy comes down to something basic.
"There's a lot of similar software like this being built, but I like those people more. They're really responsive, they're really kind." — Neal Goyal
As budgets tighten, a lot of software companies are cutting exactly the customer-facing people who build those relationships. Neal argues that's precisely the moment to do the reverse. He puts his own money where his mouth is. Of the ten largest deals he's closed in recent memory, he went and met all ten in person. Ten out of ten. Email, meanwhile, "is eroding, or completely eroded already, as a trust channel." When thousands of companies flood the same small pool of inboxes, the inbox stops being a place anyone trusts.
So the bet he's advising his clients to make is the counterintuitive one. Give before you take. Win attention rather than compete on features.
"We're not in the business of competing against other providers in the space for that brand's business. We're in the business of competing against every other software company for attention." — Neal Goyal
His single best tip, saved for the end, doubles as the whole philosophy. Forget the textbook and go strike up 20 interviews with operators who live and breathe this work. Walk in their shoes and you'll learn more than any course could teach you. He should know. He has an MBA in marketing and says the 20 conversations taught him more than the degree ever did.
Today's Guest
Today's guest: Neal Goyal
Company: SaaS Class
Website: http://saasclass.io
LinkedIn: Connect with Neal on LinkedIn
Episode link: https://www.ecommerce-podcast.com/how-ai-is-quietly-killing-your-ecommerce-app-stack-with-neal-goyal
