Shubz has been called a kūpapa. The word describes Māori who sided with the Crown in the New Zealand Wars, and it still gets thrown at Māori accused of betraying their own. Shubz gets it for having David Seymour on his show.
Shubz hosts "Shubz Says So" on Radio Aotearoa. His method is simple: talk to people you disagree with, in public, without the gotcha. That has meant long conversations with David Seymour, Brian Tamaki, Don Brash and others, and it has cost him standing in parts of his own community.
He sits down here with Dane Giraud, host of Free to Speak and a Council member of the Free Speech Union, who knows the same pressure from inside the Jewish community, where the equivalent word is Kapo. Both men arrive at the same question from different directions: what happens to free speech when the heaviest penalty for dissent comes not from the state but from your own people?
They cover the gap between kaupapa and kūpapa, why Shubz argues Te Pāti Māori does not speak for all Māori, blood quantum and who gets to decide who counts, how little either side of the Treaty debate often knows about the history, and his argument that funding and self-preservation explain more about who polices the line than culture does.
It also goes somewhere harder. Shubz is an advocate against sexual abuse, and he asks why a movement that filled the streets over the Treaty could not turn out for Sam Troth's hīkoi for survivors. He talks about what people brought to him on his own journey around Te Ika-a-Māui, and about being offered money to stop talking.
Dane pushes back, particularly on whether a small community is ever right to keep its disagreements in-house. Neither man lands quite where you would expect.
Content note: this episode includes discussion of child sexual abuse, including a survivor's account, and strong language throughout. Support is available. Safe to Talk: 0800 044 334 or text 4334. Male Survivors Aotearoa: malesurvivors.nz. Victim Support: 0800 842 846.
Mentioned in this episode: Shubz Says So on Radio Aotearoa: https://shubzlive.com The Road to Healing Aotearoa (Sam Troth): https://www.theroadtohealing.co.nz
Free to Speak is the official podcast of the New Zealand Free Speech Union: uncensored conversations on free speech, civil liberties, and the people defending them. Hosted by Dane Giraud.
Join the Free Speech Union: https://www.fsu.nz/join Support our work: https://www.fsu.nz/donate Newsletter: https://www.fsu.nz/subscribe Website: https://www.fsu.nz
Got feedback or a guest suggestion? podcast@fsu.nz
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