Reputation and Defense with Jeff McKissack - RIMScast | Lyssna här

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Jeff McKissack about participating and speaking at RIMS events, and his upcoming RIMS Texas Regional Conference session on August 11th in San Antonio, on the increasing overlap between reputation management and risk management. Jeff shares the critical impact of reputation risk and the growing threat of AI-generated content. He explains how even executives have caused reputational damage to their organizations, and he reveals a practical step that risk managers can take immediately to reduce the likelihood of reputation-related incidents and subsequent litigation. Justin and Jeff discuss the RIMS Texas Regional Conference, and how you can connect with Jeff after his presentation.

Listen for ways to implement reputation management strategies in your organization.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. We will be joined by Jeff McKissack of Defense by Design to talk all about reputation risk management. But first…

[:39] RIMS-CRMP Workshop. We are delighted to announce that on August 27th and 28th, RIMS President Manny Padilla will be leading the two-day in-person workshop at St. John's University at 101 Astor Place in New York City. A link to the registration is in this episode's show notes.

[:59] RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops. The next RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep with PARIMA will be held virtually on July 21st and 22nd. Registration links are in this episode's notes.

[1:11] We have a summertime webinar. On July 16th, Zurich will present "Too Hot to Ignore: Heat-Related Injuries and Workers' Compensation." Register at RIMS.org/webinars and via the link in this episode's show notes.

[1:25] Also on the webinars page, you will see a two-part series hosted by the RIMS Membership Department. The "Classroom to Career" webinar series highlights how RIMS equips students with the knowledge, skills, and connections needed to thrive in risk management careers.

[1:41] Participants will gain insights into industry trends, career pathways, and practical tools that help them confidently step into the evolving world of risk management after graduation. These sessions will be hosted on September 1st and 9th.

[1:55] These sessions are member exclusives and are complimentary for RIMS members, of course. So, if you are interested in becoming a member, this would be the time. Visit RIMS.org/membership.

[2:04] You can enroll now in the Virtual RIMS CRO Certificate Program in Advanced Enterprise Risk Management hosted by the famous James Lam. Beginning July 15th, workshops will be held bi-weekly from 11:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. ET. The registration link is in the show notes.

[2:28] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration will open in July. Be on the lookout for the call for nominations for the RIMS ERM Global Award of Distinction. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026 in July for that announcement.

[2:49] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[3:08] On with the Show! Our guest today is the Founder of Defense by Design, Jeff McKissack, a noted authority in the fields of threat assessment and the prevention of violent crime, with over 35 years of experience.

[3:22] Jeff provides continuing education seminars for those in the educational, medical, legal, financial, real estate, human resources, and risk management sectors. He is one of the favorite speakers in the RIMS Texas Chapters.

[3:36] You can find him at the RIMS Texas Regional Conference 2026 on August 11th at 1:45, when he will present "How Reputation Management is Impacting Risk Management."

[3:46] As you will hear in this interview, his session at the RIMS Texas Regional will dovetail with the Risks of Physical Harm and Violence. He's here to provide a preview of his session.

[3:55] We talk about the Risk Management impact of social media, AI, and deepfake technologies on operations and profits, and how employee activity online and off the clock can ripple through staffing, operations, morale, productivity, profits, and brand image.

[4:10] This episode is a year in the making. Let's get to it!

[4:12] Interview! Jeff McKissack, Welcome to RIMScast!

[4:29] Jeff has a strong history with RIMS and the RIMS Texas Chapters. He has spoken at DFW RIMS on several occasions. Jeff Strege brought Jeff down to speak at Houston RIMS. He spoke at a couple of conferences co-hosted by South Texas RIMS.

[4:59] Last year, Jeff was at the Inaugural Texas Regional RIMS Conference in San Antonio. He's there again this year.

[5:15] Jeff loves RIMS, in general, because he doesn't have to explain himself. When he speaks to HR or risk management, his two favorite positions, even above the C-Suite, risk managers and HR directors totally get what he does and why.

[5:34] Jeff says the common response he typically gets is they've never met anybody who does what he does or speaks the language he speaks. He's heard it for 39 years. He loves speaking to people in risk and insurance companies because he speaks the language of liability.

[5:54] Jeff does a lot of work with attorneys, as well, on both sides. He tells folks he's trilingual because of all these different industries. He's multifaceted.

[6:06] Jeff talks about years of working with risk professionals and feeling their pain points. He reverse-engineers many of those scenarios. He asks, Where are the points where this could have been prevented, or at the bare minimum, mitigated?

[6:43] A president of an association of independent electrical contractors called him for help. He asked, You have people working hours, in isolated locations, with expensive equipment on their trucks? What could go wrong? Without much of a push, he's able to jump in and help.

[7:20] Jeff says there are only three types of businesses: businesses that have internal employees, businesses that have external employees, and businesses that have both. The risks for those three categories are very different from each other.

[7:40] Jeff explains some of the differences in risks between having internal employees operating equipment and external employees in trucks on the road with equipment. There are different security concerns, risk concerns, and liability concerns. Address all the concerns.

[8:16] Jeff recently saw a police video of a dump truck plowing through an intersection, with its brakes out, into a ravine. Fortunately, no one was killed. Why did the brakes give out? Who was responsible for checking them? They dodged a major bullet by nobody being injured or killed.

[9:11] Jeff says he has three wheelhouses: physical risk, data risk, and reputational risk. He doesn't do active shooter training. He deals with factors that can lead to an active shooter before the shooting happens. He deals in prevention, not in reaction.

[9:42] Jeff doesn't deal in cybersecurity but in data. He doesn't talk about people who hack your computers; he talks about people who hack your people. That bleeds over into reputation management.

[9:57] Reputation management, with the internet and social media, has taken on a different dynamic.

[10:07] Either your employees go online and self-incriminate themselves by putting something out there to the world that reflects upon your company, or they do something off the clock that can still have an impact on your company and its reputation.

[10:22] Jeff mentions two courtrooms that we want to avoid: an actual courtroom, and the court of popular opinion.

[11:01] Jeff says some things before social media still ended up being headline stories in the traditional media that reflected negatively upon employers. Social media has massively amplified that dynamic.

[11:31] Jeff's talk is about how reputation management is impacting risk management. It will be held on August 11th at 1:45 p.m. during the RIMS Texas Regional Conference 2026. It examines how reputation management and risk management increasingly overlap.

[11:53] Jeff says risk management and HR management often think that whatever happens off the clock is not on them — until it is. There was an Assistant District Attorney some months ago who walked out of a bar "two out of three sheets to the wind."

[12:17] The cops wanted her to get an Uber and go home. She made a huge scene about it, captured on the bodycams. She ended up being arrested. "You don't know who I am. You can't do this to me!" The next day, not only was she fired, she lost her license.

[12:33] There are YouTube channels devoted to police bodycams. People and companies suffer the reputational consequences of those videos. Once they're on YouTube, they go viral.

[12:54] A lot of channels have hundreds of thousands to millions of views, reflecting on a company's public image, even though it was one of their employees off the clock.

[13:40] Jeff says the biggest thing is education and training. We think people know what we know and the way we think. No, they don't. Jeff compares it to schools teaching social ills. As risk managers, you need to teach employees responsibility if you want to change their behavior.

[14:40] Jeff says, Do not expect what you do not inspect.

[14:50] A Quick Break! There are so many other wonderful RIMS events coming up in 2026. The Annual Florida RIMS Educational Conference will be held from July 28th through August 1st at the lovely Ritz-Carlton in Naples, Florida. A link to the event is in this episode's show notes.

[15:09] Register now for the Second Annual RIMS Texas Regional Conference, which will be held from August 10th through the 12th at the Grand Hyatt on the San Antonio River Walk. Visit RIMS.org/Events for registration information.

[15:26] The hotel cutoff date is July 10th. Reservations may still be made after the cutoff date subject to availability; however, the negotiated group rate is no longer guaranteed past July 10th, so reserve now.

[15:40] The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit ChicagolandRiskForum.org for more information.

[15:51] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit RIMSWesternRegional.com and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.

[16:08] Save the dates October 18th through the 21st. We will be in Quebec City to celebrate the 50th Live RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Advance registration is open now.

[16:24] Visit RIMSCanadaConference.ca for more information. Also, remember to check out RIMS.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, hosted by National Conference Committee Chair, Aaron Lukoni.

[16:39] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration opens in July.

[16:49] Be on the lookout for an announcement about submissions for the RIMS Global ERM Award of Distinction. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026.

[17:00] Let's Return to Our Interview with Jeff McKissack!

[17:07] Jeff says some of these reputational concerns have been C-Suite executives. Jeff just taught about a mayor arrested in Kentucky for shoplifting a $70 pair of shorts at a department store. Jeff guesses the mayor felt he was owed those shorts.

[17:32] Last week, Jeff was talking about a city manager in Texas who felt it was a good idea, when she took her employees to a conference, to take them to a local strip club that night. After a few drinks, she got up on stage and started dancing around the pole.

[17:46] Somebody recorded that and put it on social media, and the city manager got fired. City managers aren't easy to come by. In risk management, we have to understand that when these types of things occur, they impact multiple areas, both immediately and simultaneously.

[18:05] These incidents affect staffing, operations, morale, productivity, profits, and public image. Every one of those six areas has associated dollar figures. This is why reputation management now must be taken into consideration under risk management.

[18:50] Jeff says if I get an employee compromised in a controversial, scandalous, or criminal situation, whether I capture them on camera, or if I create the environment for said compromise to occur, and I set them up to be on camera, do I have them in the palm of my hand?

[19:25] Reputational concerns, if they're not addressed and talked about before, and an employee gets caught in something that happens or was made to happen, it can be used as blackmail to have them do things internally because they have access that outside parties want.

[20:08] About a year ago, Jeff says a case made national news of a high school principal who was facing the wrath of his community because of a racial rant he was supposedly caught saying as the principal of a school with minority students.

[20:27] It came out that the athletic director had taken a digital sample of the principal's voice, maybe from a voicemail, and created an entire verbal tirade from scratch. That was proven through forensics.

[20:47] Meanwhile, the principal had almost lost his job and career and was facing physical threats to his family from the public over something that had never happened. That showed Jeff we were entering a new atmosphere.

[21:03] Jeff says, Sora 2, one of the newer AI video platforms, has already been called out for causing problems for police because people are creating videos of real people committing not-so-real crimes. With AI, it looks real.

[21:19] Jeff describes a hypothetical situation where an AI video would be used to charge an employee of a crime, leading to an arrest and a record. Think of the liabilities you and your company would face. None of those are cheap.

[22:02] Justin asks about verifying the legitimacy of a video. Jeff says there is software out there that does a pretty good job of figuring out if this video is AI-generated.

[22:32] What camera captured the action? Was it an internal, company-owned camera, or something someone supposedly captured on a phone camera? One of those is more susceptible to manipulation.

[22:53] Now, you have to be a little bit skeptical. Never has there been a more important time in our history to live by the adage, "Innocent until proven guilty." Jeff says a healthy dose of skepticism is called awareness.

[23:50] Everybody has vulnerabilities. The first step in preventing a lot of these things from occurring is recognizing your own vulnerabilities, stereotypes, and false premises. Jeff says stereotyping is judging based on appearances; profiling is judging based on behaviors.

[24:26] Jeff says you almost have to go into this blind, deaf, and dumb to do a true, analytical, unbiased evaluation.

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[25:04] RIMScast has a global audience of risk and insurance professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let's collaborate and help you reach them!

[25:18] Reach out to Ted Donovan at TDonovan@RIMS.org or Sales@RIMS.org. Let's find the best opportunity for you and your organization.

[25:30] Let's Conclude Our Interview with Jeff McKissack!

[25:54] You can't do anything about the various AI generation platforms out there. People, for the most part, are using them for all the right reasons. The thing you have to be concerned about is if it's used to accuse someone of something.

[26:10] Jeff describes speaking to the Society of Government Meeting Professionals. They are meeting planners for all the alphabet agencies, the Department of War, FAA, CDC, and more. Jeff has spoken at their annual conference for years.

[26:26] Jeff told them, you're bringing all these people here for an annual conference at one place, at one time, under one roof. Who do you think might want to compromise someone there, so that by the time they return home, they've been puppeteered?

[26:44] Jeff is getting these meeting planners to start thinking about security in a different way, and educating the people.

[26:50] "Hey, we love having you here, but when you go out to bars and restaurants, here are some things you need to think of, because some people here may know who you are and what you represent by way of access."

[26:38] Jeff says, if something happens, and they get lured back to a hotel room, for various things, and they get slipped a Mickey and pass out, and a couple of weeks later they get a video by text or email, they don't even know if it's a deep fake or not because they were blacked out.

[27:27] These are things we all have to understand how easy it is. Jeff constantly admonishes employees, when he speaks at that level, to remember it's not about them. They may not have wealth, but they absolutely represent access to things that people want.

[27:48] You have to understand that you may have a target on your back you don't realize you have. When people approach you, ask yourself, does everything that happens in Vegas stay in Vegas? Or does it stay on social media and YouTube? YouTube remembers.

[28:50] Jeff shares something from his presentation. The first step is not the stopping point. The first step is "Do you have a social media agreement in writing that your employees have signed?" If not, you, HR, and your General Counsel need to get together and word-smith it, ASAP.

[29:18] Jeff says he talked to a VP of a company with over 8,000 employees. When the VP was hired as a VP, he was paid to sign two documents. He was paid $50 to sign the NDA, so he wouldn't take the sales list if he left. He was paid $100 to sign their social media agreement.

[29:39] The company was more concerned about him doing something that impacted its public image than about taking the client list. First step is to wordsmith that agreement and how you incorporate it into a Code of Conduct as far as the off-the-clock expectations.

[30:08] Jeff shares a case from New York City where a young sitting judge had an OnlyFans page. He was fired for it and tried to fight it. He lost because the verbiage in the City Manual for his position said: "extra-judicial activities … do not detract from the dignity of judicial office."

[31:02] Jeff spoke at a risk management conference. He showed three lawsuits that were settled in the last two weeks: $125K, $225K, $485K for employees at state and government universities, entities, and institutions over the Charlie Kirk assassination. They had been fired.

[31:20] They came back and sued for wrongful termination and got settlements because there was nothing written that dictated employee behaviors online.

[31:45] You've got to have the paper trail or digital trail. If it's not in the Employee Handbook, add it as an addendum they sign, and put it in their file.

[31:57] Next year, when new hires come on board, have it as part of the Employee Handbook, whether it's the social media agreement and/or your expectations/code of conduct. At the bare minimum, have those things in order. That's your starting point.

[32:40] Jeff says when you hire someone, treat the Handbook like the Apple Agreement. Going into detail about the policy is best addressed in education and training.

[32:59] Jeff talks not only to executives but also to employees. The biggest thing he is trying to get HR, Risk Management, and the C-Suite to understand is that if you're going to alter the behaviors, you've got to teach them what to do otherwise.

[33:30] You're not going to get your employees to go cold-turkey on social media, but you can teach them to apply critical thinking skills so that they police themselves and you don't have to.

[33:45] You have to do it in a way that tells them what's in it for them. People expect them to come home with a paycheck. Tell them all their plans can be interrupted if they do something foolish now.

[34:39] Sometimes, Jeff does not have time in the session to take questions from the audience. He always tells folks he'll be around in the hallways because they may have questions they don't want to ask in front of everybody else there. Or, reach out to him on LinkedIn, or call him.

[35:22] In this arena, a lot of people don't want to put out their concerns. Justin says Jeff is very approachable. He wears a hat, and it has become a branding point for him. Justin asked him for a headshot with the hat, to make him more recognizable, because people know him in Texas.

[36:58] Justin asks about other cases involving social media outside of work. Jeff refers to the city manager who was let go because of a pole dance that showed up on YouTube, and the shoplifting mayor, also on YouTube. The judge had a side gig that was questionable behavior.

[37:35] Jeff says some teachers have been fired over video where they had their kids in the background in the classroom while they were twerking, or dancing with kids. One teacher had his students give him a haircut in the classroom.

[37:51] Jeff recalls the wording cited from the City Handbook about the dignity of the office. That covers a lot. Things like that are subjective, but most people know it when they see it.

[38:15] Justin asks if we're in a society where you have to live your life assuming that everything is going to be broadcast? Jeff wouldn't say broadcast, but at least captured on camera.

[38:25] When Jeff is doing employee training, he goes through cameras that are on the market. You're only thinking of the cameras you see. You are not thinking of cameras that could be out there, recording you. The ATM captures you and looks across the street.

[38:52] When Jeff parks in maybe a questionable area, he always tries to find a Tesla. On average, there are seven or eight cameras around that Tesla. He'll take a picture of the license plate of the Tesla next to him, so if anything happens, he can give the picture to the cops.

[39:38] Jeff says he relays to people, executives and employees alike, strategies, critical thinking. How do you use technology to your favor instead of having it used against you?

[39:51] Jeff McKissack, thank you so much for joining us here on RIMScast. Jeff says he is looking forward to seeing you all in August!

[39:58] Special thanks again to Jeff McKissack of Defense by Design. Be sure to attend his session at the RIMS Texas Regional Conference in San Antonio at the Grand Hyatt on the San Antonio River Walk on August 11th.

[40:13] Jeff McKissack will deliver the presentation, "How Reputation Management is Impacting Risk Management," at 1:45 p.m. Be sure to follow up with him in the hallways afterwards and let him know that you heard him here on RIMScast.

[40:27] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information.

[40:44] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[41:00] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[41:14] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org.

[41:26] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

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