What It Takes for Women to Break Through in Litigation

Summary

Kelly Grigsby Jones and Laurie Avery, litigation partners at Perez Morris, sit down with Kathryn Rubino to talk about building a career in trial work. They trace their paths into law, the gap between courtroom TV and courtroom reality, and how they've made an unpredictable schedule sustainable over decades of practice.

The conversation turns practical: how young lawyers can get their first real trial experience, what mentors actually look for in an associate, and how to handle a case when the best exhibit goes missing mid-trial. Both partners share candid advice for women navigating litigation, plus the one habit they say matters more than talent: preparation.

Key Takeaways

• Early trial experience often comes from smaller markets or litigation-heavy firms willing to hand associates low-stakes cases to learn on.

• Being proactive, not waiting to be asked, is what separates associates who get pulled into bigger opportunities from those who don't.

• Preparation is the one thing a lawyer can fully control, even when the outcome, a missing exhibit or a directed verdict, isn't.

• Good mentors highlight a mentee's strengths and give honest, respectful redirection when trial work isn't the right fit.

• A sustainable trial career means accepting an uneven schedule: early some days, late into the night on others.

Links and Resources

• Above the Law: https://abovethelaw.com/
• The Jabot Podcast: https://abovethelaw.com/tag/the-jabot-podcast/
• Perez Morris: https://www.perezmorris.com/
• Email the Jabot: tips@abovethelaw.com

Keywords

women in litigation, trial lawyers, legal career advice, Perez Morris, Above the Law, The Jabot Podcast, women in law, litigation partners, trial experience, first chair, second chair, mentorship in law, law firm associates, courtroom preparation, women trial attorneys, legal industry podcast, career in law, litigation career path, women partners law firm, trial advocacy

Episode Highlights

• [00:01:00-00:02:00] Laurie explains how a dismissive comment from a colleague, "you don't need to know that," pushed her toward law school.
• [00:07:00-00:09:00] Kelly describes jumping into plea deals and bond hearings early because her rural county had few attorneys to go around.
• [00:10:00-00:12:00] Kelly recounts winging cross-examination after showing up to trial without her one key exhibit.
• [00:12:00-00:13:00] Laurie tells the story of winning a directed verdict in seconds after weeks of preparation.
• [00:16:00-00:17:00] Kelly explains why she calls junior lawyers "colleagues," not associates, in front of clients.
• [00:19:00-00:20:00] Laurie draws the line between lawyers built for first chair and those who thrive in second chair.
• [00:22:00-00:23:00] Kelly and Laurie each give their one piece of advice for lawyers starting out in trial work.