Welcome to another Book Club edition! In this episode, host Kimberley Cole sits down with Penny Cagan, industry veteran, academic at Columbia and NYU, and author of Managing Operational Risk in a Changing World. From navigating the "heady days" of Basel II in the immediate aftermath of Nick Leeson's Barings debacle to building the world's first operational risk database, Penny has spent her career gently exploding conventional thinking. She joins us to discuss why change initiatives fail when you only convince the C-suite, why the second line of defence needs to stop acting like an armchair referee, and how treating AI agents like messy human employees is the key to modern governance.

Shownotes

02:06 – The Nick Leeson Effect & Defining Operational Risk
04:14 – The RCSA Overhaul: A Painful Lesson in Bottom-Up Trust
08:10 – The Quantitative Love Affair vs. Old-Fashioned Management
11:04 – Peddling FIRST: Building the Industry's First Risk Database
17:48 – The Changing World: Reshaping the Operating Model
29:09 – Agentic AI: Why Robots Need an Employee Handbook

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