Can You Get Sober Without AA?

Angela (00:20.718)
Hello, my friend. Welcome back to Addiction Unlimited. I’m your coach, Angela Pugh. Can you get sober without AA? Absolutely. 100%. You can get sober with AA, without AA, with a therapist, with a coach, with an online community, or with any number of different programs and resources. And you can also participate in every single one of those things.

And continue drinking. Because here’s something I want you to understand. The program isn’t the deciding factor. You are. And this is something we don’t talk about nearly enough in the recovery world. People are constantly searching for the thing that’s finally gonna make them stop drinking.

Angela (01:16.236)
The perfect program, the perfect meeting, the perfect podcast, the perfect approach that somehow makes everything click. And I understand that. When you’re struggling with alcohol, you are desperate for something to work. And if you’ve been trying to quit drinking for a while, you know how frustrating this can be. You find something that sounds

Promising, you get excited, you feel motivated, you think maybe this is finally going to be the thing that helps you stop drinking. And then somehow you end up right back where you started. So you start looking for the next thing. But what if the problem isn’t that you haven’t found the right program? What if there’s something else happening that you haven’t even recognized yet?

If you’ve been trying to quit drinking for months or years and you keep finding yourself right back where you started, this is a conversation you’ll want to hear.

I’ve worked with thousands of people over the years, and one thing I see constantly is people moving from one solution to the next. They listen to all the sobriety podcasts, they sign up for free challenges, they download the worksheets, they join online communities, they try the 30-day reset, the 90-day challenge, the year-long things, a new course, a new method, and they continue drinking. Then they decide whatever they tried didn’t work.

So they go looking for something else. And listen, I’m a coach. I have courses. I have a recovery community. I have resources and worksheets. I believe in these things because I’ve seen how incredibly valuable they can be. And I’m 20 years sober with zero relapses. Obviously, my way works. I know exactly what it takes to stay sober and recovery.

Angela (03:14.486)
I know exactly what it takes to stay sober and recover. I also know what all these resources and programs can’t do. They can’t make your decisions for you. They can’t make you tell the truth. They can’t make you show up when you don’t feel like showing up. They can’t make you change your routine or have difficult conversations or take responsibility for the choices you’re making.

They can give you information, structure, education, accountability, and support. But you have to use those things. You have to make the decision not to drink. And then you have to keep making decisions throughout your day that support that decision. You either make choices that move you closer to sobriety or you make choices that keep you connected to drinking. And those choices add up.

Now, I’m not saying it’s easy. Addiction is complicated. There are physical and psychological, emotional, behavioral components, and some people need different components as part of their recovery. But there’s a difference between needing help and expecting help to do everything for you. A program can support your recovery.

Angela (04:40.448)
A program can support your recovery. It can’t build your recovery for you.

Angela (05:07.308)
And if you’re constantly looking for a different program instead of examining what you’re doing with the resources you already have, then no program is going to work for you, right? And this is why people put entirely too much emphasis on which program they’re going to choose, because they start believing that if they can just find the right one, everything will finally fall into place. But that’s not how any of this works.

You can sit in an AA meeting every single day and continue drinking. You can hire an incredible coach and ignore every single suggestion they make. You can join the greatest recovery community on the planet and never participate. You can buy all the courses, download all the resources, and listen to every podcast available. And none of it has to change a single thing about your life because information.

Isn’t transformation. What you do with the information is what changes your life. And that’s true no matter which program you choose.

Angela (06:19.412)
Here’s something else I’ve noticed. People will spend an extraordinary amount of time researching recovery programs. They’re comparing philosophies, reading reviews, listening to other people’s opinions, and trying to figure out which approach is going to be the best fit. And there’s nothing wrong with learning about your options, right? But at some point, all that research and evaluating can become another way to procrastinate, another way to avoid actually getting started.

Because as long as you’re still deciding, you don’t have to commit. You don’t have to walk into a room full of strangers. You don’t have to tell anybody what’s going on. You don’t have to rearrange your schedule or make uncomfortable changes. You can just keep looking for the perfect solution. And because you’re doing something related to sobriety, it feels productive. But researching recovery isn’t the same thing as participating in recovery.

And I think people get those two things confused all the time. You don’t have to figure out which program you’re going to attend for the rest of your life. You don’t have to understand every principle or agree with every concept before you begin. You just need a place to start. And if you don’t like where you start, you can change it. You’re an adult. You get to make decisions. But you have to stop treating the decision about where you’re going to sit.

as though it’s more important than what you’re actually willing to do once you get there. Because it’s not.

Now let’s talk about the things that actually matter, because there are certain qualities and behaviors that are fundamental to building lasting recovery. And these things don’t belong to AA. They don’t belong to recovery Dharma or Smart Recovery or a therapist or a sobriety coach. They’re things you have to bring to the table, no matter what recovery approach you choose. And the first one is honesty.

Angela (08:26.006)
Rigorous honesty. If there’s one principle I believe is absolutely fundamental to recovery, it’s honesty. And not just being honest with other people, I’m talking about being honest with yourself.

Angela (08:59.235)
You have to be willing to identify the reality of your situation. If you cannot drink alcohol without creating problems in your life, you have to acknowledge that. Not negotiate with it, not minimize it, not keep searching for some magical set of circumstances where drinking will suddenly become manageable. You have to stop lying to yourself about what’s happening. You have to be honest that you need support.

And yes, I know you might be independent. I know you’re smart and successful and perfectly capable of handling all kinds of difficult things in your life. But being capable doesn’t mean you don’t need help. You have to be honest that you’re not perfect. You have to be honest that recovery requires time and effort. And if you constantly blow off recovery activities because something more convenient or interesting comes along, you need to be honest about that too.

Don’t tell yourself you’re doing everything you possibly can when you’re not. Don’t confuse thinking about sobriety with actually working on sobriety. And one of the biggest things, you have to get honest about who you actually are versus who you want everyone to think you are. Because a lot of people out here are more invested in protecting their image.

Them protecting their future. And at some point, you have to decide which one matters more. Are you committed to getting sober? Or are you committed to making sure nobody knows you have a drinking problem? And here’s my point: AA can teach you about rigorous honesty. A therapist can help you recognize patterns of denial. A coach can challenge the stories you’re telling yourself, but nobody can force you to be honest. That’s your responsibility.

And if you’re not willing to confront the truth, it doesn’t matter what program you’re attending.

Angela (11:03.358)
The next thing is willingness. And this is one of the biggest differences I see between people who continue struggling and people who start making meaningful progress. In AA, we have a phrase I absolutely love: the gift of desperation. It’s that point where the fear of staying the same becomes greater than the fear of changing. And when someone reaches that point, their attitude changes. I’ve seen this.

Thousands of times. When someone is still resisting, every suggestion is met with an explanation of why it won’t work. I can’t do that because of my schedule. I tried that before. My husband wouldn’t understand. I’m not comfortable talking in groups. I don’t have time. I don’t think that’s right for me. There’s always an obstacle, right? But when someone becomes genuinely willing, the entire conversation changes.

Instead of telling me they’ve tried something before and it didn’t work, people will say, like, I’ve tried that before, but I’m willing to try again. Instead of saying they can’t talk to their spouse, they’ll say, I don’t really know how to have that conversation. Can you help me figure that out? You see the difference there? They stop supporting their limitations and start looking for solutions. Their life circumstances haven’t necessarily changed. Their job hasn’t changed, family hasn’t changed, schedule hasn’t changed.

What changed is their willingness. And that’s something no recovery program can manufacture for you. A program can give you suggestions. It can introduce new ways of thinking and behaving. It can provide people who encourage you to keep trying. But it cannot make you willing. You have to decide whether you’re going to keep defending all the reasons something won’t work.

Or start looking for ways to make it work.

Angela (13:04.838)
And you don’t have to wait until your entire life falls apart to make that decision. You can start right now. Here’s another one: taking responsibility for your own recovery. Because a recovery program isn’t following you around all day making your decisions. AA doesn’t decide whether you go to the liquor store after work. Your coach doesn’t decide whether you keep hanging out with your drinking friends in drinking environments.

Your therapist doesn’t decide whether you have that uncomfortable

Your therapist doesn’t decide whether you have that uncomfortable conversation with your spouse. And your recovery community doesn’t decide whether you show up for a meeting or spend another night sitting on the couch drinking. You make those decisions. And yes, addiction can make those decisions extraordinarily difficult. That’s one reason support and treatment can be so important. But the support doesn’t eliminate your responsibility.

To participate in the process. You have to make time for your recovery. You have to use the tools you’re learning. You have to be willing to examine your behavior and make different choices. And this is where people get stuck. They want to stop drinking, but they don’t want anything else to change. They want to keep the same friends, the same activities, the same routines, the same relationships, and the same lifestyle.

And on top of that, they don’t want anybody to know they’re struggling with alcohol in the first place. They want to quietly stop drinking, keep everything looking exactly the same on the outside, make sure nobody notices what they’re going through. They don’t want questions, they don’t want conversations, and they certainly don’t want anyone thinking they have a drinking problem. They just want to remove the alcohol without disrupting anything else in their lives. And I understand why that sounds appealing, but here’s the problem.

Angela (15:08.278)
Nothing changes if nothing changes. You can’t continue doing everything the same way and expect a completely different outcome. And no program is gonna magically change those things for you. It’s your life. You are the one that has to live it differently.

Angela (15:44.812)
And this is where I think it’s important to understand the difference between sobriety and recovery, because simply not drinking is one thing. But learning how to live without alcohol is something much bigger. You can remove alcohol from your life and still have all the same unhealthy behaviors, emotional struggles, and relationship patterns that existed when you were drinking.

You can still be dishonest. You can still avoid responsibility. You can still struggle with boundaries, communication, resentment, anger, fear. And this is why recovery is about so much more than putting down a drink. It’s about learning how to handle life. How do you manage stress? How do you deal with disappointment? How do you communicate? How do you tolerate uncomfortable feelings without immediately trying to escape them?

How do you take responsibility when you’ve made mistakes? These are life skills. And if you’ve spent years using alcohol to manage your life, you have to learn or strengthen some of those skills. That’s what recovery helps you do. But again, no program can develop those skills for you without your participation.

Angela (17:05.1)
You can learn about healthy communication in AA, in therapy, in a coaching program, in a recovery community, but eventually you have to go home and actually communicate differently. You can learn about accountability in a meeting, but eventually you have to take accountability for something. You can learn about boundaries, but eventually you have to set one. The program teaches you how. You have to put it into practice.

Angela (17:38.656)
And that’s what moves you from simply not drinking into building a life of recovery. So, what about AA? Let’s talk specifically about Alcoholics Anonymous because I’ve spent 20 years in AA and I have some strong opinions about it. But first of all, I love all the programs, right? I don’t care which one you go to. I just want you to find support and be committed to participating.

It doesn’t matter if you go to AA, Recovery Dharma, Celebrate Recovery, Smart Recovery, or something else. Because it’s not the name of the program that makes the difference. And I want to explain something about my own experience too. When I first started going to AA, I didn’t know anything about the program. All I knew was that’s where people went to not drink. And I wanted to be a person who didn’t drink. It was really that simple.

I wasn’t researching the 12 steps or studying the philosophy behind the program. I just knew I needed to stop drinking, and AA was where people went to get help with that. Now, I was a little freaked out about the religion thing. I’ve got my own religion trauma, but I reminded myself, like Angela, you’re a fucking grown-up, dude. No one can force you to go to church. Just sit down and shut the fuck up. I was perfectly capable of saying no, right?

And that concern wasn’t enough to keep me from doing something that might save my life.

Angela (19:12.502)
And that’s a perfect example of resistance and willingness. I had some fear about the religious aspect. I had preconceived ideas about something I didn’t understand, but I was still willing to go and figure it out because my sobriety was more important than my fear. I wasn’t walking in that room to evaluate everybody else’s beliefs.

I wasn’t there to decide whether I liked the language or the format. I was there to learn how to stay sober. And that’s what mattered.

Angela (19:54.934)
Now, here’s where I’m going to challenge some people because I hear a lot of people confidently declaring that AA doesn’t work for them. And when I start asking questions, I find out like they’ve been to three meetings, or maybe five, maybe 20, who knows? But they’ve never worked the steps, they’ve never had a sponsor, they’ve never meaningfully participated in the program, but they’ve decided it doesn’t work. And I have a problem with that.

Not because everybody needs to attend AA, they don’t, but because you cannot claim to understand something you’ve never actually experienced. You can say you didn’t like the meetings. You can say you felt uncomfortable. You can say the language seemed strange or the spiritual aspects made you nervous. That’s fair. But be honest about what you’re actually describing. You don’t know the program. You know how you felt walking into a few meetings.

And guess what? It’s weird. Of course it’s weird. You’re in a shitty place in your life, confronting something overwhelming and confusing. You feel terrible about yourself. You’re walking into a room full of strangers, doing something you’ve never done before, listening to people talk in a language you don’t understand. You don’t know what you’re doing, you don’t know what to expect. It’s all fucking weird. It’s all uncomfortable. Own that.

Don’t blame it on the program.

And I can say that because I’ve been there. I had reservations too. I was confused too. I was scared to death to walk in those rooms. But I was willing to go and stick around long enough to learn what was actually happening. Because being sober was more important to me than the weirdness. And I think a lot of people are putting entirely too much emphasis on things that.

Angela (21:56.076)
Have very little to do with whether you’re gonna stay sober or not. They get hung up on the language, they get hung up on the word alcoholic, they get hung up on the concept of a higher power. They overthink the steps and what they might require before they even understand what the steps are or why we do them. And meanwhile, they’re losing sight of the reason they went there in the first place to get help with drinking. Right? You don’t have to agree with every person in a recovery meeting.

You don’t have to like every single thing about a program. And you certainly don’t have to make somebody else’s beliefs your own. But you might need to stop evaluating everything around you long enough to pay attention to what you can learn.

Now, if you’ve genuinely explored AA and decided it’s not the right fit, that’s your decision. And yes, people can legitimately have negative experiences. But let’s be clear, negative experiences aren’t exclusive to AA either. People have bad experiences with therapists, coaches, treatment centers, online communities, churches, recovery communities, and everywhere else imaginable.

I’ve had worse experiences at the grocery store than I’ve ever had in AA. Definitely worse experiences with therapists. You’re dealing with human beings, and human beings aren’t perfect. Sometimes you encounter people you don’t connect with. Sometimes you get bad advice. Sometimes you end up in a group that’s just not a good fit. And sometimes those experiences are genuinely harmful, and you absolutely have the right to walk away.

But having a bad experience with one person or one meeting or one group doesn’t automatically mean the entire program is bad. You have to be able to separate your experience with an individual from your understanding of the program itself. Because you can go to another program and have a bad experience too. Some people have really serious issues and struggles, and those people will be in all the programs.

Angela (24:11.948)
And if you decide something isn’t the right fit for you, that’s fine. Find something else. But don’t let one negative experience become your justification for giving up on getting help altogether. Because remember, the goal here isn’t to find a program where you’re never going to be uncomfortable. The goal is to get sober.

Angela (24:43.052)
Now, let me tell you what happened when I stopped worrying about everything I didn’t understand and started participating. I was blown away by the people. I had never experienced anything like it. There was so much love and support and honesty and laughter. People are willing to do extraordinary things for each other.

And there was this overwhelming sense of belonging, right? Here I was sitting in rooms full of people who looked different from me, came from different backgrounds, and had completely different lives and experiences. But every single person who shared said something I could relate to. Every single one of them. Someone would talk about their anger, and I understood. Someone would talk about lying, and I’m like, yep, I get that.

Someone would share about their relationships, their fears, the mistakes they made, or things they were ashamed of. And I understood. And more importantly, I got to hear how people were changing, how they handled situations differently, how they repaired relationships, how they learned to deal with their emotions, how they made mistakes, took responsibility, and healed.

I learned about myself by listening to other people tell the truth about themselves. It was like having a mirror in front of me every day. And I can’t possibly explain how valuable that was because I wasn’t just learning how to stop drinking. I was learning how to be a better person. And at some point, I don’t know, probably around six or eight months into my sobriety, I started understanding something else.

The principles of AA aren’t exclusive to AA. They stole all that shit from other places. We’re talking about principles that have existed for centuries. Ancient philosophy, religion, stoicism, psychology, spiritual traditions, right? It’s honesty, humility, accountability, acceptance, service, self-examination, forgiveness. AA didn’t invent those things.

Angela (27:01.622)
And you don’t have to attend AA to learn them. But here’s what AA did so incredibly well. It took these powerful principles, organized them into a framework, and surrounded them with people who could help you understand and practice them. And then it made all of that accessible for free. I didn’t have to figure out what books to read.

what philosophies to study, which principles mattered, or how to implement them. All I had to do was walk into a room, sit down, shut up, and learn. And I needed that. I would have never figured all those things out by myself. And even if I somehow found the information, I didn’t have the structure or accountability or consistency to put it into practice. That’s what the program gave me.

And here’s the important part.

I didn’t have that experience simply because the letters on the door were A and A. I had that experience because I showed up. I listened. I participated. I was surrounded by people working toward a common goal and I was willing to learn from them. That’s how I was willing to show up. And that’s the part that matters. How you show up. And that kind of growth can happen.

In

Angela (28:35.084)
And that kind of growth can happen in other recovery programs too, because the principles don’t belong to AA, and neither does recovery. You know, there’s something we say in the rooms, you come to quit drinking, you stay for the fellowship. And that’s certainly been true for me. I love alcoholics. We are some of the best people on the planet. We are charming and smart and funny, and we love fiercely.

There’s just something extraordinary about being surrounded by people who truly understand the thing you’ve struggled with. Because alcoholism is a monster. It infiltrates every part of your life. And while people who haven’t experienced it can absolutely love and support you.

There’s a particular understanding that comes from someone who’s lived with that same monster. They understand the mental battles, they understand the shame, they understand the stakes. And most of us don’t get many opportunities in our everyday lives to be surrounded by people who understand that part of us. But in AA, I had rooms full of them. And nothing makes me happier than a room full of alcoholics. The laughter, the love, the honesty.

The absolute ridiculousness of some of our stories. I mean, it’s incredible. And over time, something else happened. I started feeling a sense of responsibility to be there for the next person, especially the next woman. Because I remembered what it felt like to walk through those doors for the first time. I was scared to death, wondering what kind of weirdos I was about to encounter. And

My first meeting was all men at least 25 years older than me, not exactly the environment I was dying for. So, what I wanted was when that next woman walked in the room, I wanted her to see someone like me. Another woman who was happy, who was smiling and laughing, who was comfortable with herself and proud of her sobriety, someone who could help her see that her life wasn’t over.

Angela (30:51.544)
That there was actually something extraordinary waiting for her on the other side of drinking. And for many years, that was an important reason I continued showing up. And that’s one of the beautiful things a recovery community can provide: connection, support, belonging, perspective, and opportunities to help other people. But again,

None of those things are exclusive to AA. You can find extraordinary people in all kinds of recovery communities. And I encourage you to find yours.

But you have to show up and participate if you want to experience those benefits. You can’t sit on the sidelines judging everybody and expect to develop meaningful relationships. You have to be part of it.

Angela (31:41.506)
And I want to touch on one last part of this too, the judging other people in the room. Every week of my life, I’m in a conversation with someone who’s telling me how uncomfortable they are in a meeting with other people who have to be there. And they’re like, Well, there were some other people who had to be there, like court ordered to be there, and I don’t have to be there. Well, so fucking what? It’s not AA’s fault that the court system makes people go there.

It also doesn’t mean that you’re somehow different or better than that person. And lastly, it’s none of your fucking business. It is literally none of your business what anyone else in that room is doing. It’s none of your business if they’re court ordered, if they believe in God, or if they’re gonna be drunk by nightfall. You are there to stop drinking, not to analyze everyone in the room.

and share your super important thoughts and opinions about them. Mind your own business and learn how to love people instead of trying to make yourself feel better by minimizing other people. You are your business, not anyone else.

So let’s come back to where we started. Can you get sober without AA? Absolutely. You can get sober through many different programs and approaches. But here’s what I really want you to understand: the decision about which program to choose is not nearly as important as the decision to actively participate in your own recovery.

People want to know which program has the highest success rate, which meetings are best, which approach is gonna feel the most comfortable, which one has the best philosophy. And I’m not saying those things don’t matter at all. Of course, you want to find support that meets your needs, but you don’t need to turn that decision into a six-month research project while you continue drinking. Find a place to start. Show up, listen, ask questions, learn.

Angela (33:49.494)
And start putting things into practice. And here’s something else you might find interesting. In a 2020

Angela (34:01.224)
In 2020, a major Cochrane review examined 27 studies involving more than 10,000 people to evaluate the effectiveness of Alcoholics Anonymous and 12-step facilitation compared to other established treatments. And you know what they found? AA and structured 12-step approaches actually produced higher rates of continuous abstinence.

than other established treatments, including cognitive behavioral therapy. That’s a significant finding. And I think it deserves attention, especially when people are so quick to dismiss AA as outdated or ineffective. AA has a tremendous amount to offer. The structure, the fellowship, the accountability, the opportunity to learn from people who’ve been where you are, and the research supports its effectiveness.

But having access to those things and actually taking advantage of them are two different things. The program can provide the opportunity. You still have to participate. Because no matter where you go, you’re still gonna have to be honest. You’re still gonna have to take responsibility. You’re still gonna have to make time for your recovery. You’re still gonna have to learn how to navigate life without alcohol.

And you’re still gonna have to make decisions that support the life you’re trying to build. No program can eliminate those responsibilities, and no program should have to.

Angela (35:42.604)
Because the whole point of recovery is learning how to live your life differently, learning how to trust yourself, learning how to deal with difficult situations, learning how to manage your emotions, communicate, build relationships, and take care of yourself. And those are the things you need to develop within yourself. With support, absolutely, but you’re the one who has to practice them.

I hope by now you understand why I don’t think choosing a recovery program needs to be nearly as complicated as people make it. I love AA. I love the people, the fellowship, the structure, everything I’ve learned over 20 years. I love all the programs because they all offer the important components of support, learning, love, and accountability.

And I know people can create extraordinary sober lives through a ton of different approaches. What matters is what you’re willing to do. Are you willing to be honest? Are you willing to ask for help? Are you willing to make time? Are you willing to try something unfamiliar? Are you willing to examine your own behavior and make changes? Because those are the things that matter, not the name of the program.

Not whether everybody in the room believes the same things you believe, not whether you love every word they use or every suggestion they make, and not whether the experience is always comfortable.

Angela (37:14.124)
You don’t have to find the perfect program. You have to find a place where you can get support, learn, and start doing the work. And then you have to actually do it. You can sit in AA meetings for the next 20 years and keep drinking. You can work with a coach, attend therapy, join online communities, and buy every sobriety course on the planet and still never change. Because you can’t outsource your recovery. The program doesn’t decide whether you drink.

The program doesn’t decide whether you show up. The program doesn’t decide whether you’re honest with yourself. And the program doesn’t decide whether you’re willing to change your life. You do. So don’t spend so much time deciding where you’re gonna sit and start paying attention to what you’re willing to do once you get there. Because you don’t have to get sober through AA, but you do have to participate in your own recovery.

Because you don’t have to get sober through AA, but you do have to participate in your own recovery. And that’s something no program on the planet can do for you. If you’re tired of going in circles, trying different things, and continuing to end up in the same place, that’s exactly the kind of work I can help you with too. And I have a few different options to choose from. We can look at what’s keeping you stuck, what needs to change, what fits your lifestyle.

Not everyone is appropriate for the same thing. That’s why I have options. But you can book a free call with me and we’ll talk about how to start moving forward. AddictionUlimited.com forward slash call. You don’t have to figure everything out by yourself, but you do have to be willing to show up for yourself. And that is where your recovery begins. Again, addictionunlimited.com forward slash call. That link is always in the show notes.

I love you guys. I hope you’re having a fantastic day. And I will see you next week.