Sally Hayden made a name for herself by documenting some of the worst human rights abuses of the 21st century. Now she’s written a new book… of love stories. This week we had the honour of sitting down with the decorated Irish journalist to discuss her latest release, This Is Also a Love Story, the (im)balance of good news and bad, and the oft-forgotten truth that, as Sally puts it, “humans exist at the center of geopolitics”. We’ve devoted the whole of this week’s episode to this challenging conversation, and we hope you’ll find it as thought-provoking as we did.

You can learn more about Sally on her website (we highly recommend reading her 2023 speech to the European Parliament). Don’t miss her first book, My Fourth Time, We Drowned, and her new release, This Is Also a Love Story.

This podcast would not be possible without our extraordinary Patreon family. If conversations like these inspire you, please consider joining them over at ⁠⁠⁠patreon.com/europeanspodcast. You can also, as always, make a donation via our website. Many, many thanks.

Co-hosts: Katy Lee and Dominic Kraemer

Producers: Morgan Childs, Dominic Kraemer, and Wojciech Oleksiak

Audio editing: Morgan Childs

Mixing and mastering: Wojciech Oleksiak

Music: Jim Barne, Mariska Martina and Blue Dot Sessions

The Europeans is proudly produced using Europe’s own Hindenburg.

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