On this episode hosts Fred and Gregg welcome David Shulkin, MD who served as U.S. Secretary of Veterans Affairs under President Trump and before that as VA Under Secretary for Health under President Obama. In this conversation Secretary Shulkin makes a counterintuitive argument: the VA's government-run, globally budgeted healthcare system is a model the private sector should be learning from, not dismissing. The discussion spans the VA's landmark hepatitis C elimination campaign, its AI-powered suicide prevention program, the structural case for population health over fee-for-service, and why Shulkin believes incremental reform has run its course.

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