Every coach says they want more leaders. But most are picturing the wrong level entirely.
JP Nerbun, Betsy Butterick, and Nate Sanderson unpack Level 3 leadership, the one-to-one relational work that has to exist before Level 4 (leading the whole team) ever works, including the Joey Votto story of a star player who took up Spanish and improv classes just to become a better teammate.
Whether you've got a team full of quiet glue players or you're still waiting for someone to step up, this conversation will change how you look for leadership on your roster.
Chapters(00:00) Intro
(02:35) Level 3 vs Level 4, defined
(08:33) Leading a team vs leading people
(10:42) The glue player nobody calls a leader
(15:19) When leadership feels inauthentic
(20:15) The soup metaphor
(23:26) Skip the template, find the belief
(32:18) What coaches get wrong on calling out
(36:49) Walk your own talk first
(39:58) The six parts of Level 3
(42:29) Reframing fear before hard talks
(45:54) Four beliefs that block feedback
TOC 3-2-1
3 Quotes | 2 Questions | 1 Resource
Your fast-track to the episode's most actionable ideas.
"The problem with hard conversations isn't not knowing the template. The problem is the belief system that gets in the way of actually changing the behavior."
- J.P. Nerbun
"One group calls it 'called out.' The other group calls the exact same thing, a coach stopping practice to single out an athlete, 'called up.' It depends on the relationship."
- Betsy Butterick
"Rizzo said he got called out by Ross more than a few times, and every single time he walked away feeling like the guy loved him."
- Nate Sanderson
2 Questions for Your Team
Q1: On a scale of 1 to 10, how comfortable are you calling out a teammate when they're below the standard? What belief is keeping you from a 10?
Q2: Think of one teammate you'd call out without hesitation, and one you wouldn't. What's actually different about those two relationships?
1 Resource to Go Deeper
The Culture Captain by JP Nerbun
The book behind this episode's framework, breaking down the four levels of leadership from knowing yourself to leading the whole team.
Visit tocculture.com here
Key Takeaways
- Level three is the leadership skill coaches actually need, not level four
- Being a great teammate makes you a better performer, not a distraction from it
- Don't let "that's just who I am" become the end of the conversation
- Calling out and calling up are often the exact same behavior
- Most athletes aren't missing a script, they're stuck on a belief
- The best challengers spend the other fifty-one weeks building connections
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Better Coaches. Better Leaders. Better Culture.
