In this episode, host Duane Osterlind welcomes physician, trauma-informed coach, and author Dr. Frank Spinelli for an honest conversation about trauma, addiction, and the root causes of shame. Dr. Spinelli shares his personal story—from surviving childhood abuse in the Boy Scouts and helping law enforcement bring his abuser to justice, to experiencing a profound breakdown during the isolation of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Together, Duane and Frank explore why addiction and shame stem from the same underlying wound, how to separate healthy guilt from toxic shame, and how reframing shame as a tool rather than a sentence can guide us back toward self-acceptance and alignment with our core values.


Key Topics Discussed

  • Trauma and the Hidden Roots of Addiction: How unaddressed childhood trauma often manifests as compulsive behaviors—whether involving alcohol, food, work, or sex.
  • Shame vs. Guilt: Why guilt focuses on behavior ("I did something bad") while shame attacks identity ("I am bad"), and how the inner voice of shame is often an installed narrative from past abuse or upbringing.
  • The Isolation Trigger: How the removal of external coping routines during the COVID-19 pandemic caused dormant trauma and shame to resurface for millions of people.
  • Shame as Information, Not Indictment: How leaning into shame—rather than running from or numbing it—can reveal where you are out of alignment with your core values.
  • Naming the "Unreliable Narrator": Why personifying and giving a distinct name to your inner critic helps separate your core self from intrusive, shame-based thoughts.

Key Frameworks & Tools

The 4 P’s of Emotional Regulation

A practical exercise to build "shame literacy" when triggered:

  1. Pause: Stop before reacting or speaking.
  2. Be Present: Bring awareness to the immediate moment and physical surroundings.
  3. Ponder: Evaluate if your emotional response belongs to the present situation or an old memory.
  4. Possibilities: Select an intentional, grounded adult response rather than an automatic reaction.

The 3 Bodies of Processing Shame

  • Somatic (Physical) Body: Noticing physical sensations (chest tightness, sweating, tension) in the nervous system without judgment.
  • Story Body: Recognizing the internal narrative, challenging the "unreliable narrator," and separating objective facts from emotional thoughts.
  • Relational Body: Understanding how shame builds isolation walls instead of healthy, protective boundaries in relationships.

Key Quotes

"What if shame is not something we need to move away from? What if we leaned into it and used it not as an indictment, but as information?" — Dr. Frank Spinelli

"Guilt is 'I did something bad.' Shame is 'I’m bad.' The voice telling you that you're bad is probably not your own voice—it was installed by someone else." — Dr. Frank Spinelli

"Addiction and shame are not separate problems. They're the same wound—they're just expressed differently." — Dr. Frank Spinelli

Guest Resources & Links


See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Rss Apple Podcaster
Podden och tillhörande omslagsbild på den här sidan tillhör Duane Osterlind, LMFT. Innehållet i podden är skapat av Duane Osterlind, LMFT och inte av, eller tillsammans med, Poddtoppen.