LightSong School of 21st-Century Shamanism and Energy Medicine Talking Stick Podcast Ayahuasca and Spiritual Awakening: Is There Another Way?
Can a powerful psychedelic experience lead to lasting spiritual transformation? Or is there a deeper connection available without plant medicine?
Ayahuasca has become increasingly popular among people seeking spiritual awakening, healing, personal transformation, and a deeper understanding of themselves. But what happens when the experience ends? And are there risks that aren't always discussed?
In this thought-provoking episode of LightSong Talking Stick, Jan Engels-Smith and Micah Schwader explore the growing fascination with ayahuasca, the spiritual traditions surrounding its use, and the important distinction between having an extraordinary experience and developing a lasting relationship with the divine.
Jan brings decades of experience as a shamanic practitioner and teacher, including working with people who have struggled following plant medicine ceremonies. Micah offers a different perspective, sharing his firsthand experiences with ayahuasca in Costa Rica—and the unexpected message he received each time:
"You already know how to do this. Why are you doing this to yourself?"
What began as curiosity ultimately became a powerful confirmation of something he had already learned through years of shamanic journeying.
Together, Jan and Micah explore the questions that anyone considering plant medicine—or simply seeking a deeper spiritual connection—may want to ask.
In this episode, you'll discover:
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Ayahuasca and its cultural roots: Why understanding the traditions, training, and relationships surrounding sacred plant medicine matters.
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The risks behind the experience: Concerns about ceremonial ethics, psychological vulnerability, difficult experiences, and the importance of integration afterward.
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Spiritual connection without psychedelics: How shamanic journeying offers a different approach to exploring consciousness and developing a personal spiritual practice.
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The difference between experience and transformation: Why a profound moment doesn't necessarily translate into lasting changes in everyday life.
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The temptation of spiritual shortcuts: How seeking a dramatic breakthrough can sometimes distract us from developing our own awareness and abilities.
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Discernment and intention: Why understanding what you're truly seeking may be more important than the method you choose.
Jan also introduces the shamanic understanding of the Upper, Middle, and Lower Worlds, explaining how her tradition approaches spiritual allies, sacred space, and intentional connection with benevolent helping spirits.
Throughout the conversation, both Jan and Micah emphasize respect for traditional plant medicine practices while encouraging greater awareness, personal responsibility, and caution. They share their own experiences and spiritual perspectives rather than presenting them as universal conclusions.
At the heart of this episode is a question that reaches far beyond ayahuasca:
Are you looking for an extraordinary spiritual experience—or are you looking for a way to bring spiritual connection into your everyday life?
For Jan and Micah, the deeper opportunity lies in developing the ability to connect with your inner wisdom and spiritual guidance, rather than depending on an external experience to access it.
Whether you're curious about ayahuasca, have participated in plant medicine ceremonies, practice shamanic journeying, or are simply exploring your spiritual path, this conversation offers an opportunity to consider what genuine transformation means to you.
Because sometimes the greatest discovery isn't something new.
It's recognizing the wisdom and abilities you already possess.
This episode shares personal experiences and shamanic perspectives. It is not medical advice or a substitute for professional guidance regarding psychedelic substances or mental health.
About Jan Engels-Smith
Jan Engels-Smith is a shamanic practitioner, teacher, author, and founder of LightSong School of 21st Century Shamanism and Energy Medicine. For more than four decades, Jan has explored consciousness, healing, personal transformation, and humanity's relationship with the unseen realms. She has performed thousands of soul retrievals and trained students around the world in shamanic practices designed to help people reconnect with their innate wisdom and spiritual nature.
Jan is the author of Becoming Yourself: The Journey from Head to Heart and Through the Rabbit Hole: Explore and Experience the Shamanic Journey and Energy Medicine.
Learn more about Jan, LightSong, classes, and shamanic training at LightSong.net.
About Micah Schwader
Micah Schwader is a transformational writing coach, editor, publisher, author, and shamanic practitioner who has spent more than 30 years helping people discover and express the stories that matter most. His work explores the intersection of writing, creativity, discernment, inner guidance, and personal transformation, helping writers move beyond formulas and external expectations to uncover what is authentically their own.
Micah is the author of Stumbling Into Grace: The Adventures of a Transgender Shaman and works with writers, authors, leaders, and creators to use writing as a means of exploration, discovery, and authentic expression.
Learn more about Micah at ShamanSezz.com. For information about writing and publishing, visit InspiredLifePublications.com.
