What does it really mean to be spiritual but not religious?
In this thought-provoking episode, Jan Engels-Smith and Micah Schwader explore the growing movement of people who identify as spiritual while stepping away from organized religion. Together, they examine the difference between religion, spirituality, and direct communication with the spirit world, sharing personal stories, shamanic perspectives, and powerful experiences that challenge conventional beliefs.
Jan discusses the shamanic understanding that everything in existence—from rocks and rivers to animals and trees—carries intelligence and spirit. She shares stories of communicating with the unseen world, working with spiritual allies, and the profound lessons that emerge when we open ourselves to guidance beyond the physical senses.
Micah reflects on his lifelong questioning of religious dogma and his search for a more direct relationship with the divine. He shares moving stories about spirit animals, ancient stones, childhood experiences with organized religion, and the journey that led him toward a spirituality rooted in personal experience rather than prescribed belief.
Together, they explore:
- The rise of people identifying as "spiritual but not religious"
- Why direct spiritual experience matters
- The shamanic belief that all things possess intelligence and spirit
- Power animals, spirit allies, and sacred relationships with the unseen world
- Personal stories of elephants, snakes, rocks, and synchronicity
- The difference between dogma and direct connection
- Why respect, compassion, and interconnectedness are central spiritual values
- The Lakota concept of Mitákuye Oyás'iŋ ("All My Relations")
- How spirituality can deepen our relationship with nature, ourselves, and each other
This conversation invites listeners to reconsider where spiritual wisdom comes from and to explore the possibility that guidance, connection, and meaning may be far more accessible than we've been taught.
About Jan Engels-Smith
Jan Engels-Smith is a shamanic practitioner, teacher, and founder of the LightSong School of 21st Century Shamanism and Energy Medicine. With decades of experience training practitioners around the world, Jan is the author of numerous books on shamanism, spiritual healing, and personal transformation. Her work focuses on helping people develop direct relationships with spirit, access their innate intuitive abilities, and live with greater purpose, balance, and connection.
About Micah Schwader
Micah Schwader is a transformational writing coach, editor, publisher, shamanic life coach, and author of Stumbling Into Grace: The Adventures of a Transgender Shaman. Through his work with writers, seekers, and changemakers, Micah helps people uncover their authentic stories, navigate life's transitions, and connect with deeper sources of wisdom and meaning. He is the founder of Inspired Life Publications and ShamanSezz.com and lives in the cloud forests of Costa Rica, where nature, spirituality, and storytelling continually intersect.
