Zaid Hassan has spent 25 years in systems change, and he thinks the field fooled itself. Beautiful diagrams that feel like progress and change nothing. Skills that AI will take first. Joe Iles asks him what actually works, and why he still ends his new book with three words: it's not that hard.

Zaid is a strategist, facilitator and writer. He has advised organisations across the globe including the World Bank, Oxfam, WWF and more. He is the author of the Social Labs Revolution (2014) and more recently How To Evolve And How Not To (2026).

Find out more about his work here:
https://xinx.co/

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