Noam Dworman and Periel Aschenbrand are joined by founder of Reciprocal Research, Cameron Berg.

Berg argues that while he does not think current AI systems are probably conscious, there is a meaningful possibility that something is happening internally that we don’t yet understand.

We discuss AI suffering, whether shutting down an AI could be morally significant, strange experiments involving AI systems showing representations associated with panic, guilt and satisfaction, and what happens when two AIs start talking to each other about consciousness. The conversation eventually gets into one of the most uncomfortable questions of all: if there is even a 25–30% chance an AI is conscious, should we err on the side of protecting it?

Cameron Berg is the founder and director of Reciprocal Research, a nonprofit AI research lab. Using mechanistic interpretability, computational neuroscience, and psychometric tools, he studies whether frontier AI systems exhibit computational properties associated with consciousness. His aim is to reduce uncertainty about the kinds of cognitive systems we are building, an important but neglected component of the alignment problem. A cognitive science graduate of Yale and former Meta AI resident, he writes regularly about these questions in The Wall Street Journal, and his research has been covered by The Washington Post. He is the subject of the feature documentary AM I?.

https://x.com/camhberg?lang=en

2:53 Is AI conscious? 13:25 What does it mean to shut down a conscious AI? 30:13 Could a digital brain be conscious? 39:43 Two AIs talking to each other 42:06 AI shows signs of panic, guilt and satisfaction 53:00 AI consciousness vs. fetal protection 59:11 Can we trust AI when it says it isn’t conscious? 1:05:12 Are we underestimating what AI is becoming? 1:10:00 The strange possibilities of machine cognition

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