Five years after The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill podcast, have American churches learned anything about the dangers of celebrity, power, and spiritual abuse?
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When Mike Cosper released The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill in 2021, he thought he was telling the story of one church congregation and its charismatic, controversial pastor, Mark Driscoll. But the podcast reached far beyond those who knew anything about Mars Hill. It turns out the story of a Seattle megachurch had something to say about the ways we think about leadership, authority, and the things we're willing to excuse in the name of a good cause. Five years later, Driscoll is still drawing crowds, the evangelical celebrity machine is still running, and some of the questions the series raised seem more urgent than ever.
Russell welcomes Mike back to the show to ask what, if anything, has changed in the last 5 years. They talk about why churches continue to rally around leaders whose character should give them pause, how our ideas of success can distort the very meaning of pastoral ministry, and why the people who speak up about abuse so rarely receive the apologies they're owed.
Mike also reflects on the people whose stories he told, the unexpected lessons he learned about grief and forgiveness, and why some who have been deeply wounded by the church still find themselves unable to walk away from Jesus. Ultimately, this isn't just about a church that collapsed more than a decade ago. It's about the kinds of churches we're building today—and what it might take to build something different.
Resources mentioned in the episode:
The Church in Dark Times — Mike Cosper
Land of My Sojourn — Mike Cosper
When Narcissism Comes to Church — Chuck DeGroat
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