How B2B Companies Build Strong Communities for Growth

SPEAKERS

Christian Klepp, Elzie Flenard

Christian Klepp  00:01

Welcome to this episode of B2B marketers on the mission, and I’m your host. Christian Klepp, today I’ll be talking to Elzie Flenard the third. He’s the founder and CEO of Podcast Town, and helps B2B brands uncover their unique voice to broadcast through the world. His expertise lies in turning content into a powerful tool for growth, whether it’s through launching a podcast, building a robust content strategy or monetizing efforts to drive real results. Tune in to find out more about what this B2B marketer’s mission is. All right, I’m gonna say Elzie Flenard the third. Welcome to the show.

Elzie Flenard  00:40

Thank you so much for having me. I’m super excited about this conversation.

Christian Klepp  00:44

Likewise, likewise. And, you know, based on the conversation we had before hit record, I love, I love your name, because it really does sound like a monarch, right? Like, and now that you’ve got us, now that you also have a son, he’s, he’s the fourth, right?

Elzie Flenard  00:58

He’s the fourth. And I’ve already, I’ve already prepped them. Said, Okay, you know, when you have a son, what, what we’re going to name them, right? So be any, any, any kickback.

Christian Klepp  01:09

Yeah, exactly, exactly. So there is a successor, so to speak. But Elzie, I really appreciate you coming on the show. I’m really looking forward of this conversation, because it is not just highly relevant to B2B marketers. I think it’s really highly relevant to B2B companies as a whole. So the topic for today’s discussion is how B2B companies can build strong communities for better growth. And I think you do have a bit of experience in that regard. So why don’t we kick off the conversation with this question, why do you feel that authentic connections are the foundation of success?

Elzie Flenard  01:47

Well, the biggest reason is twofold, really, but the first reason is because connection is the differentiator, right? If I am looking at three different companies, and they all do very, very similar things. I’m going to choose the company that I feel the most connected to. It’s an age old business principle right now, people are going to do business with people with that they know, like and trust. I call it the KLT (Knowing you, liking you, and trusting you). It’s like a sandwich, the know the like and the trust and I like the like in the middle, because people can trust you and they can know you, but if they don’t like you, that you still are going to lose that sale, right? So you have to have all three. And I think that that is the thing that as we move forward with technology and AI, speed to market is changing. It’s faster than ever. So competition is higher than ever. You’re gonna… that KLT factor is gonna be the differentiator, and you don’t get connection without that KLT.

Christian Klepp  02:52

Absolutely, absolutely. And that’s even more so in a case I had a guest on yesterday, and we were talking about this very same topic, about the you know, building credibility, building trust, and what have you. And even in B2B, that can get tricky at times, especially if you’re involved in the situation, because I’m in the marketing and branding industry, and sometimes we don’t have direct access to the client, right, like we get vetted by an agency that’s responsible for looking right, looking for those so called vendors, and you know, they we have to go through this vetting process and then we get introduced to the client, right? So there’s no existing relationship there. But regardless, to your point, if you don’t build up that trust, then how are you ever going to get in the door? Right?

Elzie Flenard  03:41

Yeah, exactly. And I think too people try to take shortcuts. Trust is not a shortcut thing. You have to put in the work like there’s no way around it. It takes time. It takes time to listen, it takes time to act, and then to iterate it, you just have to do the work. There’s no shortcuts, which is cool, because that means like people, like you, are going to win because you’re willing to put in the work to do the research and to make those adjustments. So but, but Trust is everything. And you know, the biggest thing though, is really hard to get, really easy to lose, and once it’s lost, it’s gone forever. So it’s a delicate thing that you have to manage.

Christian Klepp  04:29

Are you talking about business relationships or marriage or both?

Elzie Flenard  04:34

They’re quite similar. If you think about it, they’re pretty close to the same thing, right?

Christian Klepp  04:40

Absolutely, absolutely I’m going to move us on to the next question before we start venturing into dangerous territory here. But like, what do you wish more B2B marketers knew about building communities in their industry?

Elzie Flenard  04:55

I wish more B2B marketers understood that it takes time. This is not a microwave solution. My kids tease me all the time because I 9 out of 10 times if I need to warm up my food, I’m not going to do it in a microwave, because the way that it, you know, it works, is it sucks all of the juice out of the food, and by the time you eat it, it’s just not the same, and so I’ll put it in the oven, I’ll set the temperature to 350 and I set a timer that I keep right beside the stove to 15 minutes, and that’s how I warm up my food. It takes longer. I have to be more intentional. Takes a couple of few more steps, but the end result is much, much better than using the microwave. And so that’s the analogy that I always like to use. Is like, don’t put it in the microwave, put it in the oven.

Christian Klepp  05:49

I love this.

Elzie Flenard  05:49

Take, take your time, and the end result is going to be that much better.

Christian Klepp  05:53

Aboslutely. One other thing about heating up food and microwave is that it ends up either getting harder or dry, right?

Christian Klepp  06:02

I love that you brought that up because I just thought of another follow up question. You know, you’ve, you’ve seen, and we’ve all seen them, especially during the pandemic, right? There were online communities like just sprouted up everywhere, and many of them don’t exist anymore. Why do you think that is?

Elzie Flenard  06:02

Yep.

Elzie Flenard  06:21

Well, because it wasn’t intentional or genuine in the first place, and that’s the nature of relationships, right? When you come to it as a superficial thing, then it doesn’t last right to the point that you know we were making earlier. It has to be intentional and it has to be authentic, and it has to be genuine, otherwise it will not last. Just the same if you’re going to start a podcast, a ton of podcasters, I call them, COVID casters, popped up everywhere, and now everyone had a podcast. A lot of those folks are not here anymore, right? They’re gone because they weren’t really doing it for the right reasons, and so they got to episode seven, realized that it was really, really hard. It was a lot of work, and they weren’t going to become Joe Rogan, and then they quit. Right? Same thing with community. You know, you have to have a leader of the community that is authentically and genuinely interested in the success of the community. If they’re not, the community will fail

Christian Klepp  07:22

Absolutely, absolutely and correct me if I’m wrong. But you know, similar to podcasts, right communities, you have to go in there with some kind of plan. And when I say plan, I’m not saying like, Okay, let’s try to see how many leads we can convert. That’s not the type of plan I’m talking about, but the plan of like, okay, how do we grow the community? How do we keep them engaged? How do we keep them coming back? Right? I’m gonna age myself here a little bit, but it’s just like, you know, those old radio shows, right? Like you sit there and listen, and then, oh, you know, they end that episode with a cliffhanger, and then you gotta come back next week, right? Or any, any TV series, right? Just take your pick. Same thing, right? To be continued, shucks, gotta wait till next Sunday, right?

Elzie Flenard  08:04

Yeah, yeah. I think the one thing about community, and I think in this is at the time of this recording is 2024… I think in 2025 and beyond, we’re gonna see community become more and more important. When you think about brand, when you think about KLT, like no, you know No, like trust, just because it, it really does take a concerted effort to maintain them. And I think the thing that makes a community great is not necessarily the leader. Now, know that sounds like a contradictory statement to what I make, what I said before, but hear me out. A really good community is one that builds on itself, where you can go and you can get value from other community members. Now it’s an extremely important that the leader of that community has that heart, because people will follow the heart of their leader. All right, so if the leader is transactional, the community is going to be transactional. If the leader is genuine and caring, and they share information, they make connections, then the community is going to do the same. You can tell if a community is going to survive, not based on just the leader, but of the people. If the people are there to help each other, to connect each other, to keep each other engaged, the community will thrive. But if that community is depending on Elzie to always be adding the values, always doing the connections, that community does not stand a chance. So, so I think community is going to continue to be important. And B2B organizations need to take notice, because this is going to be one of the major ways to to grow brand and to grow affinity in 2025.

Christian Klepp  09:57

That’s incredibly interesting. And, yeah. It’s, it’s a bit of an ecosystem, right? For lack of a better word. And if I can throw in another science term there, it’s symbiosis, right? It’s like, you know, in science class, they talk to us about, like, symbiosis is when organisms feed off each other, right? And I don’t mean that in a cannibalistic way, but, um, it to your point, right? It’s, it’s also what the what you vibrate within the community, right? Because it can’t just be the leader by himself or herself. It’s got to be, you know, the members as well. So they feed off each other’s vibes somehow, right? Because if it’s a, if it’s a one sided affair, to your point, and we’ve seen it, right, like some of these communities are no longer around, or they’re just not active anymore, or they’ve lost a lot of members. And the list goes on and on and on, but, um, that’s a great segue to the next question, and you’ve brought up some of them already, pitfalls to avoid when it comes to building communities.

Elzie Flenard  10:56

I think the biggest one is not understanding the difference between an audience and a community. They’re not the same and really and not understanding the difference between engagement and transaction, right? So my LinkedIn audience is an audience. It’s very transactional. If I make a post that speaks to them, that gives them value, they engage, they like, they comment, they share, if I don’t, you know, adding in the complexity of the good old algorithm. So if they happen to see my post and it doesn’t add value, then they’re not going to they’re not going to engage with it. The people who are in my community, they not only see what I what I share with them, but they engage with it because they want to engage with it and because they want to add value to other people, right? So it’s a very different level of relationship. And I think people are, they sometimes try to use those as one in the same and they’re very, very different touch points and different points in the relationship. So I think that’s one of the bigger downfalls. And I think the other one is just not giving it enough time, you know, again, it’s an oven. It’s not a microwave. It takes time to build, you know, a thriving community. It does not happen overnight for most people.

Christian Klepp  12:23

I’m going to totally sound like a Wall Street bro here, and that’s not my intention, but it’s kind of like investing in stocks, right? You don’t cash out after three months, unless you’re super lucky, which almost never happens. You got to keep on putting something in. You got to be patient. You let you let the stock grow, right? The stock market kind of like the sea, it will ebb and flow, right? And, yeah, to your point, it’s, it’s, it’s taking that time, putting in that effort, because the community, like a lot, like a podcast, it’s an investment, right? It’s not, and I’m not just talking about monetary investment. It’s really, I think the time factor, right? Because you’re, you’re spending, what an hour, two hours a week, on some of these calls, right?

Elzie Flenard  13:10

I will say that it’s a time investment, it’s a relationship investment, it’s a, it’s a social investment, it’s, it’s a, it’s a business investment, but you’re investing to your point for the long term. It’s not a short term play. And I would even argue that a podcast is a community, if you, if you do it well.

Christian Klepp  13:32

Absolutely, absolutely, you brought something up, and I want to go back to it, not because I’m playing the devil’s advocate, or maybe I am. I don’t know this term that people constantly use about like, you know, you got to add value to the community. You know, you got to give value. Define value for us. You know, from your own interpretation.

Elzie Flenard  13:51

Value is information, expression or connection that moves you closer to your goal. So, I mean, that could be a post, it could be an encouraging word, it could be it could be a handshake and a smile, right? I always tease when I go places. One of the first things I do is I see if people are smiling, because I know, and I don’t have a scientific, you know, staff for this Christian, but it is very, very, very difficult to not smile at somebody that’s smiling at you, unless you’re just having the absolute worst day. And even still, it’s really hard if I, if I come up to you and say, Hey Christian, how are you? And I’m smiling, it’s very hard for you to not smile back, right? So that’s the first thing I look for, is like, are they smiling? Are they happy to be here? If they’re not, then that that diminishes my experience, right? And so, so I said all that to say you, you have to understand that what you put out is what’s going to come back. The seed and the harvest, right? So value is putting out content, putting out energy, putting out things into the world that will have a positive impact and help people get to their goal. To me, that’s what value is, and it could be again, as simple as a smile in the checkout line or or a handshake or an encouraging word?

Christian Klepp  15:25

Absolutely, absolutely, great definition. Great interpretation of value. Great interpretation of value. Okay, I’m going to move us on to the next question and provide an example, ideally from your own experience, of how communities can help B2B companies become authorities in their industry and strengthen relationships.

Elzie Flenard  15:46

One example, and I won’t, I won’t use their name, but there’s a that where we were working with, we’re working with, and their number one thing was, how do we help people understand what it’s like to work with us, right? And so we helped them launch a podcast, and their clinic attendance went up by three three times, right? So they 3x it. And it wasn’t because their show was amazing and it was. It wasn’t because of the quality of the content. The content was great. It wasn’t because of them specifically. It was because they took an intentional, concerted effort to build community, and by doing that, by the time the folks got on the phone with them, they had shortened their sales cycle by five, right? It was like, they already like you, they already know you, they already trust you. That part’s out of the way. Now it’s like, what, what deeper value do you have over and beyond what you’ve already given us? Right? And that’s just one example of taking the community approach, right? Understanding KLT, understanding value, understanding community, and wrapping that all up and seeing the return on that investment.

Christian Klepp  17:07

Great story. You just made me think of another question, and I was gonna save this for later. But you know what? Let’s just go. You’ve got a bit of experience, obviously, with communities and building them and nurturing them and what have you. What would you say if you were to look at it from a top level, like, I call it like an eagle eye perspective, what do you think B2B companies can do differently, um, to build communities and not necessarily. I’m not, I’m not implying that they need to do something crazy, right? But what can they do to make their communities stand out a bit more?

Elzie Flenard  17:44

I think again, the biggest thing is stop being transactional. You know, transactional sales is over. People are they, you know, they don’t want to buy from corporations anymore. They want to buy from people. P2P is a good way. I like to think of it. It’s person to person now, and that mindset shift, I think, will differentiate B2B organizations, even though, you know, we’re corporations, we’re businesses, we have to understand that we are working with people, and people love to do business with other people. So that mindset shift. And then again, the other thing is just taking the time and the investment. It’s not a microwave, it’s an oven. So just understanding that it takes time to grow it. And to your point, you have to nurture it. It’s not like you just do one thing and then, you know, three months go by and nothing happens. No, you have, you have to nurture it. You have to create feedback loops and make, you know, iterations and adjustments, and then, you know, continue to feed, feed that community for it to be effective.

Christian Klepp  18:53

Absolutely, and one thing that I always like saying is, please stop making it a pitch slap fest, right? Because I don’t know about you, but I’ve been in a couple of communities where that was the case, where they would, you know, send you into these breakout rooms, right? These famous breakout rooms, and then they said, Okay, off you go, pedal your wares. And I was like, Well, I don’t know. You know what I mean. Needless to say, I didn’t stick around for too long, right?

Elzie Flenard  19:03

But that, but again, that goes back to relationship, right? You know, in business, being similar to a marriage, you wouldn’t approach someone and say, Hey, Christian, let’s, let’s, let’s get married. You just wouldn’t do that. And so what? Why do we do that in business, it is just, it just doesn’t work.

Christian Klepp  19:38

Absolutely. That’s a great segue into the next question, which is, you know, so we talked about, like, how communities can stand out a bit more. How can you engage the members in the community in a way that, you know, keeps them coming back, like, and how can B2B marketers play a role in that to keep the community engaged and active? Because, you know, we’ve seen what happened, right? Like, I don’t have the numbers, but I. I lost count of how many communities sprung up in 2020 for example, right? And fast forward to 2024 some of those communities aren’t around because they just lost steam.

Elzie Flenard  20:11

Well, I think the first thing to know is that community is not cookie cutter. We went to Vegas a couple of months ago for my son. We went to go see battle bots. Vegas is a example of a community, because you could go there to play slot machines, and that’s a whole community, or you can go there to watch battle bots, different community, not the same content, not the same value, different expression, different ways to engage. If I try to engage the battle bot community the same way I engage the slot machine community, probably not going to work, right? And vice versa. So I think you have to understand who you’re building community for. You know, if you’re building a community for extremely busy professionals, right? CEOs, founders, I don’t want to log on every day, Monday through Friday and post seven times, engage with seven different posts and post my like, I don’t have time to do that. I’m not I’m just not going to do that. And so if your community does that, then I’m probably not a right fit for your for your community. So I think again, just understanding your people what they value, and then, in my case, I value my time, so don’t ask me to post every day like I don’t have time. I’ve struggled to keep up posting with social media every day. I’m not gonna do that, plus this community, right? So understanding your people what they value, and engaging them where they are and how they like to be engaged, right? I think if you do those things right, your community will have that differentiation. It’ll be a little bit different, because some communities are all about that. You need to log on every day to communicate, to connect with folks and like that’s part of where you are as a professional. So I think again, knowing who your people are, what they value, and how to engage them, will bridge that gap, right? Because if you try to engage them in a way that they don’t want to be engaged again, just like in a in a relationship, then it, you know you’re not speaking their love language. It’s not, it’s not going to be successful.

Christian Klepp  22:21

I was thinking of singing one of these boy band songs where, you know, where there’s a breakup, but I’m just going to skip that part. (laugh) I think the audience got the gist. No, no, absolutely, absolutely. It’s, um, it really boils down to having a deep understanding of who your audience is, who you want to. I don’t want to use the word target, but understand who it is you’re reaching out to, who your who your community appeals to, meeting them where they’re at, as you said, like, Okay, what kind of content do they like? What do they engage with? What do they find interesting? What resonates with them, or also very important, what kind of challenges are they having, I mean, what kind of problems, right? What kind of questions they have? What do they look for online? Right? Yep, fantastic, fantastic. Okay, we get to the point where we’re talking about actionable tips, and you’ve given us plenty already, but if somebody were listening to this, right? Hopefully a, B2B marketer who’s like, you know what? I’m so inspired by what Elzie said, and I want to build a community. But how do I do this quickly? Right? So what are three to five things that you would say they could do? Right? To take action.

Elzie Flenard  23:13

Okay, so I was just gonna say, you don’t want to do it quickly, but I would say, understand the business you’re in. And I’ll go a little bit deeper on that, be intentional and strategic, and then finally, formalize the community. I believe that podcasting is probably the best way to do that, for a number of reasons. So let me go back to understanding the business that they’re in. You are not in the software business, you’re not in the accounting business, you’re not in the marketing business, you’re not in the podcasting business. You are in the attention business. Period, understand how to earn, retain, convert and transact and connect and transfer attention. If you do that, then you’re golden. And those, those are my steps.

Christian Klepp  24:29

Awesome. So that was awesome, um, let me just recap, earn, retain, convert, trans, transa…

Elzie Flenard  24:40

Transfer.

Christian Klepp  24:41

Transfer, connect. You make it sound so simple.

Elzie Flenard  24:44

But simple is not easy. Simple. This simple, but simple is not easy.

Christian Klepp  24:50

Very true, very true, very true. You made me just think of another follow up question, and it’s on the well, it’s one of these love it or hate it questions. So let’s just say, for as an example, right? There’s a B2B marketer out there who’s listening to this and says, Okay, I’m going to go and start building this community based on these steps that you’ve been suggesting during this conversation, and at some point, couple of months down the road, this B2B marketer then has to go to the board and show that they’ve made progress, right? So you probably know where I’m going with this. How do they show progress in the form of metrics or things of that nature?

Elzie Flenard  25:34

Yeah, I would say the metrics are going to depend on what type of community you’re building. Naturally Speaking, you know, you want to measure the number of people that are in the community. I think that’s a fair, legitimate measurement, or KPI. Now, again, it doesn’t have to be 15,000 right? So whatever that goal is, but that’s a easy way to measure. The other thing that I that I like to tell folks to measure is, you want to kind of do it on two levels, right? So there’s the audience level, meaning social media. You know, engagement, likes, comments, shares, is the content resonating, right? That’s one of the ways that you know, if people are engaging with it more than they were before you started, right? So just kind of measuring that against that as a reference point, and then a level deeper. Are they taking the next step? So your email list? Is it growing? Are people opening your email? Are they clicking on stuff in your emails? If so, what things are they clicking on? If they’re clicking on the things, are they then taking action? Right? So those are levels of engagement. So first of you will say, Okay, open rate, are they opening it? That’s a level of engagement. Click rate, are they clicking on it? That’s a level of engagement. What are they clicking on? That’s another level. Are they taking action from the thing that they clicked on, that’s another level. So I would just map those things out as metrics, and then track those as they go. Right? Because they you know, your email list can sometimes be a leading or a lagging indicator, right? So if your social media is going crazy, everybody’s liking, sharing and engaging, but they’re not joining the email list, then, as a marketer, you have to start asking questions, okay, why? Is it because they’re just my audience and not my community? What do we need to do to bridge the gap? Are we targeting the right people? If it’s converse, it’s like, okay, we’re not getting much action on social, but the email list is, is blowing up. Okay, cool. Where’s the disconnect? Because those should be in alignment, right? Those two numbers should go up at the same time. They should be directly proportional, right? So things like that really just analyzing the actions and the levels of engagement and building based on that.

Christian Klepp  27:59

Yeah, fantastic, fantastic. You gotta look at it as a type of funnel, right? Like that funnel has different stages, and then you try to, you try to move them carefully and intentionally through that funnel, right? Yes, to your point, to take the next steps. Okay, fantastic. Okay, we get to the soapbox question, and it’s on this particular topic of building communities. All right, so what’s a status quo that you passionately disagree with? And why?

Elzie Flenard  28:28

This was a hard one, Christian, because I don’t know that I passionately disagree with.

Christian Klepp  28:33

Anything

Elzie Flenard  28:34

Anything other than…

Christian Klepp  28:37

Here we go. Here we go.

Elzie Flenard  28:38

So, so here’s the thing, I I recognize the potential, the opportunity, of social media. Okay, so I don’t want you, your viewers, your listeners, to take this what I’m about to say the wrong way. Okay, so I’m gonna, I’m gonna provide some context what I’m about to say, I understand that it’s a it’s, you know, it’s powerful. And I’m not speaking of just one, I’m speaking of the concept and the construct of social media. I understand the power of it. I understand the necessity of it. I understand the trade off. I’m just having a really tough time understanding why they choose to design the algorithms the way they do. And as a business owner, entrepreneur, storyteller, it frustrates me to no end that my people, that I’ve earned their attention. We talked about that a little bit early, but I don’t have control over the content that they see from me. That is incredibly frustrating for me, which is, which is, again, I think, wow, we’re going to see private communities explode in 2025 because. Because I’m not the only one who is extremely frustrated with the fact that it could be the most brilliant post or video or value add and only a fraction, a tiny fraction of the attention that I’ve earned. Now, again, I understand that it’s their platform. They took the risk and built the tech I get it, but the fact that a fraction of the people of the attention that I earned are gonna see that content, I struggle with that that’s a struggle for me.

Christian Klepp  30:33

I truly share your sentiment, and I share your frustration, because it’s happened to me as well, right? I mean, I don’t post as often as I did during the pandemic. During the pandemic, I posted like three or four times a week, and even then, the algorithm kept pushing my content down, apparently, right? So people that were following me and checking out my content at some point said, I can’t see your content anymore, right? And there’s this other stuff that’s floating to the top that’s not even relevant to what what they’re consuming. And to your point, Elzie, that that just frustrated me like to no end. I don’t understand that. So yeah, I am, I am frustrated with you. I would say, right, yeah, that’s crazy. That’s crazy.

Elzie Flenard  31:23

It’s one of those things where, as a as an entrepreneur, you look at it and you say, Okay, it’s, you know, it’s like, going to your, your friend’s house. It’s like, yeah, that’s, it’s their house. They can do what they want, you know? So how, how you respond to it is, you figure out ways to either play the game the way that they designed it, or you play a different game, and really, that’s what it boils down to.

Christian Klepp  31:25

Or you build your own house, right? Like where you pitch a tent in front of the house, I don’t know.

Elzie Flenard  31:45

Or you leverage the house, you know, to build your own house. So there. You know, there are ways to get around it, but does it change the frustration?

Christian Klepp  32:00

Absolutely, absolutely okay, My Friend, here comes the bonus question. If you were to pick a song that would describe that would be like the soundtrack of your life, what song would that be and why?

Elzie Flenard  32:14

Boy, that was not in the prep questions.

Christian Klepp  32:19

Nope, no.

Elzie Flenard  32:23

I missed it. Wow. Song track of my life I would have to go with and I’m dating myself.

Christian Klepp  32:34

Go.

Elzie Flenard  32:36

Michael Jackson wrote a song called Man in the Mirror. I like that song because it, it acknowledges things that are, are happening, that are going on, but it takes self accountability.

Elzie Flenard  32:56

Says, Okay, if you, if you want to make change like I know it’s not perfect, I know it’s not ideal, and you’re right to feel the way you feel, but it needs to start with the man in the mirror like it needs to start with you, like you have to own your journey, right? And so that, I think, is the way that I live my life. That’s the way I run my business. I know I’m not perfect, but I know that that by shifting my mindset, by taking account of accountability, of my peace in it, I can to the for lack of a better term, I can make my bed right and so. So that’s the song that comes to mind off the top of my head that would encapsulate the be the soundtrack, soundtrack of my life.

Christian Klepp  33:30

Yes.

Elzie Flenard  33:30

For it.

Christian Klepp  33:39

Yes.

Christian Klepp  33:49

I love it. I love it. You handle that one really well, man. Fantastic, fantastic. Yeah, I was thinking about this one too. I think mine would be a journey. Don’t stop believing, right? Except that I’m not a city boy born and raised in South Detroit like but that, but that chorus line there that don’t, don’t stop believing, hold on to that feeling. Yeah, pretty much. Elzie, this is such a great conversation. Thank you so much for coming on and for sharing your experience and expertise with the listeners. So please. Quick introduction to the mayor of podcast town and how folks can get in touch with you.

Elzie Flenard  34:28

Yeah, so the mayor of podcast town, so podcast town is essentially a agency that helps business owners leverage podcasting to build community. Essentially, is what we do. The best way to get in contact with me, actually, is just to shoot me an email Mayor@podcasttown.net.

Christian Klepp  34:49

Fantastic, fantastic. Elzie once again, thanks so much for your time. Take care, stay safe and talk to you soon.

Elzie Flenard  34:55

All right, appreciate the time.

Christian Klepp  34:56

Thanks. Bye for now.