193 Holiday Classic Christmas in South Africa with Kate Jack

Transcript

Becky Hadeed

Hello hey, how are you?

Kate Jack

I'm doing well. Thank you and.

Becky Hadeed

You, oh I'm great. Thank you so much for getting on with me.

Kate Jack

It's such a pleasure. I'm looking forward to this.

Becky Hadeed

Me too. So first I have to ask you. Is your last name Jack?

Kate Jack

That's correct, yes.

Becky Hadeed

So your name is Kate. Jack, yes, that's. Such a great name.

Kate Jack

I'm married into the name, but I'm grateful for it.

Becky Hadeed

Yeah, it's like you're like the female protagonist to a Tom Clancy novel.

Kate Jack

When someone heard my husband's name, she said, "It's like that's a brand name." [Laughter}

Becky Hadeed

That's so well said that's. True, yeah, and you're feeling better.

Kate Jack

Much better I might cough a little. But lingering a bit, but so much better, thanks.

Becky Hadeed

Oh, I'm so glad I'm so glad. OK, well then let's jump in and talk about Christmas and South Africa. So, so first of all, we know that Christmas in South Africa during the summer season feels a lot different than we experience it in the northern hemisphere, but to back up a little bit, I am curious how Big South Africa is and how many time zones does it cover - and does it cover a lot of different climate zones? Does it depend on what region you're in, what weather you experiencing at Christmas time? Or is it pretty much the same for South Africans across the country?

Kate Jack

OK, so we have one time zone but we kind of almost could be two time zones, but officially we only one. So that gives an idea of the size. We are all in the southern hemisphere and so while our climate varies a little bit - like the West of the country where I live has winter rainfall and the east of the country is summer rainfall and it can get a little bit more tropical. Towards the northern parts, especially the northeastern parts, and some areas are a bit dry and some like you know semi arid. But we all. We all experience the summer, the celebration of Christmas in the middle of summer.

Becky Hadeed

And how hot is it?

Kate Jack

So degrees in Celsius, so that varies around the country, so it could be. Around mid 20s to 30s. Yeah, uh.

Becky Hadeed

Hot enough to be in the pool under the summer sun?

Kate Jack

Yes, yes, so some Christmases we do.

Becky Hadeed

Amazing, amazing and I guess of course yeah, so I'm looking, yes that's very warm weather.... According to Google, 25 is 77 degrees Fahrenheit, and if it goes up to 35 Celsius, that's 95 degrees Fahrenheit. So it's definitely squarely in the summer time weather for sure.

Kate Jack

Thank you having time, yes.

Becky Hadeed

And it's and it's mostly dry. You can pretty much guarantee that it's not going to be a rainy Christmas Day, because that happens in the winter time.

Kate Jack

So for us, it definitely is more common. We have a a dry summer, but it's quite bizarre because obviously Christmas days I remember and we occasionally do get rain. In summer, and it always seems to fall on. Christmas, but quite a few rainy Christmases we're sitting inside. But then I I do also remember Christmas days where we enjoy outdoor activities or outdoor Christmas feasts - we're outside kind of having a picnic or we are swimming. So that's also more common. Yeah, and generally the days around Christmas you're gonna have some hot sunny days around.

Becky Hadeed

Right, OK, so I guess when I think about how warm it is in South Africa... So much of Christmas preparations and creating the festive spirit around here is just about the decorations, you know. It's the lights on the house, which of course when it's getting dark at 4:15 or 5:00 o'clock in the evening, you enjoy them for hours. It's like a very wintry wreath. Everything is so associated with cold weather and the hope of a White Christmas, so I'm just having trouble visualizing Christmas, and especially the Christmas decorations in a hot climate. What does that look like if you go out and shop and there's Christmas decorations up. What do they look like?

Kate Jack

So, bizarrely, we still hold on to quite a Northern Hemisphere Christmas in a lot of ways. So definitely growing up it was, you know, traditional Christmas trees - trees were conifers and we had spray on snow. [Laughter]

Becky Hadeed

Even even in the winter time, you don't....

Kate Jack

Get snow? No no no no no. I mean, in some areas like in the mountainous inland areas, but it is no. No cities get snow really. It's not a common thing at all. So our Christmas decorations - We have tinsel and like Christmas balls, I guess yeah. There's been a trend in recent years to try and Africanize our Christmas decorations, so maybe beadwork is quite popular in South Africa, and so, like the decorations we made of beads or wire crafts, or using, you know, using material that's from South Africa like Shweshwe, which is this patterned printed materials - really pretty. So incorporating those kind of design elements on our decorated Christmas tree, but definitely growing up it was all very like snowy scenes like Christmas cards still had like snowflakes on them and it's bizarre. But that was a reality, yeah?

Becky Hadeed

Yes, did it... did it feel bizarre when you were younger? When you were little, what did you think? Why are there snowflakes on all these cards? Why is Santa Claus from the North Pole? We'll get to this.

Kate Jack

Not at all. Like of course we, of course we're gonna spray fake snow on our windows. I mean, that's just what we do at Christmas to get into the Christmas spirit. I didn't think it was weird at all. Maybe I was just too excited about the presents or.... Yeah, I mean obviously Father Christmas has reindeer even though they don't really work in African countries.

Becky Hadeed

Right? Right, so I cut you off.

Go ahead, I'm sorry.

Kate Jack

Umm no. So no, I didn't think it was weird growing up. Definitely. I'm as I'm getting older. I'm like no I want to. I want to celebrate Christmas in summer while South Africa is in full bloom and, for example, now my my mom makes a wreath for Christmas and instead of putting conifers or pine branches, she puts on succulents, South African succulents. And you know, so like we try and add some South African or African elements to our decorations for the Christmas holidays.

Becky Hadeed

OK so I just had to real quickly Google a "succulent wreath" because when you said that it's like a little explosion went off in my mind of wow, how brilliant and beautiful would that be? And wow, I'm looking now and how gorgeous is that? Do succulent succulents just grow wild? Is it pretty much you can just pick them and create one? Do you have to buy the succulents.

Kate Jack

So my mom has them growing in our garden, so in some areas in South Africa they are growing wild. It's actually quite a problem that they have become quite trendy plants, and so they're actually being pushed and and so they need to be protected. But they're also really easy to grow. Certainly some of them, and so you can easily get them in garden shops and easily grow them in your garden. So that's where Mum's got them growing in her garden. So she'll just go and pick them from her garden and and make the wreath from there.

Becky Hadeed

That is amazing. Yes, like I said, I'm looking at some of these and they're gorgeous, absolutely gorgeous.

Kate Jack

I feel it works so well, yeah.

Becky Hadeed

How about Christmas trees? What did you choose?

Kate Jack

So pine trees are pretty common in South Africa, and there are pine plantations and and so we'd get a little mini pine tree in our house. So yeah there are few indigenous ones and I've got a pot plant that, it's a yellow word, so it's a really pretty tree indigenous to South Africa.

Becky Hadeed

Yes, I see. Can you tell me the name again? What's it called?

Kate Jack

It's a yellow woood.

Becky Hadeed

Ohhh a yellow wood, Alright, I gotta Google this also. Ohh that's beautiful!

Kate Jack

And so it can make for the pretty tree. Yes, it makes quite a nice pot tree too. I mean they get really big and huge and they form forests in one area of the country as well and in pockets throughout South Africa, they form small forested areas or bigger areas in some countries in some places, but in our garden we've got it as a big pot plant.

Becky Hadeed

OK.

Kate Jack

And then we decorate.

Becky Hadeed

OK ohh beautiful. Ohh wow they really do get huge.

Kate Jack

Yes, yeah, they can get really really.

Becky Hadeed

Big yeah, almost like the redwoods here. Just massive.

Kate Jack

Yeah, there was some really classic, really big big ones.

Becky Hadeed

OK, so sticking on this winter theme and what was weird and what was not.... We had really an entertaining conversation last night becaus I mentioned to my family that I was going to be talking to someone from South Africa about their Christmas traditions and my my husband - It was so cute - It was almost like he was a little kid because he said it completely seriously, "But can Santa go to South Africa?" Which was well, it was so funny because Santa, like it, it was almost like he was missing the point that Santa is a fantasy character, and then we were talking about what would happen, would Santa have heatstroke in that suit? You know would the reindeers overheat?

Kate Jack

We didn't really care about Santa overheating. [Laughter.] I mean Santa doesn't wear shorts or like a a short suit. So yeah, Santa can still come in summertime, definitely. And generally growing up, we called Santa Father Christmas. Hmm, and tradition in our house was we put out some food for his reindeers and for him the night before Christmas and Christmas Eve. My dad was very particular about what Santa drank and ate.

Becky Hadeed

Really, what did your dad feel strongly about?

Kate Jack

Well, he had to have, I think, port or Sherry or something like you know wine type thing and you have to...

Becky Hadeed

OK. Oh, like the English mince pies.

Kate Jack

Yeah, yes, so that's quite a common South African. It's come from England and that's it's quite a common South African Christmas thing too. And then I think the reindeers, well, my sister cared more about what they ate. They had carrots when I was a kid. I wouldn't mind as long as the presents came.

Becky Hadeed

Oh that's funny. That's funny. So yeah, St Nicholas was still depicted as a red suit, big beard, all of this?

Kate Jack

We were concerned, I mean, fireplaces aren't that common in South Africa. So we were a bit concerned that we didn't have a fireplace and, and so you know what we do is that we left the window open, so just leave a window open and Santa can come through the window totally fine.

Becky Hadeed

[Laughter.] Ohh that's great. That is just great. Oh I love it. I absolutely love it. Yeah, so as we talk about presence, are those a big deal in South African culture? And then generally was is Christmas there more of a religious, more of a secular event? What's like the the heart of Christmas - South African Christmas traditions?

Kate Jack

Uh, so I think I'll speak more about my family. Obviously we have a lot of different cultures in South Africa different. Not just from the yeah. Not just different religions with different cultures so they're celebrated possibly different ways too, maybe go to church services. So, with presents and then is it more of a cultural or religious? I'll be a bit of a mixture. I think definitely more and more it becomes, you know a consumer day, filled with family gatherings and eat yummy food, just a day of good eating and it's you know, it's still a very common South African holiday like oh. Well, the shopping centers will be playing Christmas music and will be decorated with a tree and Christmas decorations so it's quite widespread in in South Africa.

Becky Hadeed

What would Christmas dinner look like around your table.

Kate Jack

Sure, so so my family growing up, we would have a Christmas lunch on Christmas Day afternoon. My granny was one of seven siblings and so her siblings and her cousins and their children, my cousins, so my generation. We'd all meet together and so it could end up being quite a few people. So whoever was on Cape Town and and then, you know sometimes would also be cousins, other family or neighbors or friends would also come, just a big social gathering. So, often you wouldn't be sitting around an actual table. And often 'cause the weather is quite nice, it would just be sitting around on picnic blankets outside or you know, meal eating off laps. It was quite informal, I guess, just because I know the numbers were quite big. People would bring it prepared beforehand and it'll be all cold. Things would be different salads and then roast meat, but that had cooled down. So like we'd have gammon, which is a traditional dish and chicken and beef fillets. And uhm, yeah, I think those are the main meats. And then whatever salads, potato salad normal like a kind of. Some more trees they just started and then the whole range. Whatever people made like. There'd be such a big range of different salads depending on number of people and what people like to make and. Yeah, and then that would. Be the main meal and then there would. Be lots of differences it.

Becky Hadeed

Hmm, did you say the first protein? Did you say? It was gamut.

Kate Jack

Yes, Karen. What is that some ham? But that's been smoked. It's kind of like a. Like a roast? Yeah, I'm not. It's kind of a small. It's rather than like bacon a smoke but it's all sliced thinly. This would be. I don't know what cut of. The animal it is.

Becky Hadeed

Yeah, it's still I'm I'm looking it up. It's still on the bone it's almost like our our Easter ham. Yes, yes.

Kate Jack

Yes, it should have I. I think that would probably be another way to describe it. Yeah, so it's kind of smoke before and then, like you kind of.

Becky Hadeed

And is it?

Kate Jack

Cook it in water and then. And then you. Glaze the top with UM. It's like a mustard sugary glaze. We use a cold but well, I mean, I guess you could eat a type. It's always a Christmas we ate at cold sliced.

Becky Hadeed

Umm, well I love that. It sounds like you guys really embraced low effort preparation for Christmas dinner.

Kate Jack

Yes, and because it was, you know, it would be hot generally. So then. All the food was. Cold and. You know, well everyone contributed something, and so no one was left with making everything.

Becky Hadeed

Right, right? Well, and your favorite contribution was peppermint crisp pudding, which you shared with us. So tell us about that traditional South African dessert?

Kate Jack

Yes, so that's definitely my favorite dessert. I was just think. Thing now. It's nothing. It's something that I've never contributed. With my Aunt Audrey always used to make it. I was definitely one of the eaters rather than the contributors.

Becky Hadeed

That is an important role. Let's not diminish it.

Kate Jack

So growing up, you know my Aunt Audrey would make that and now my sister makes it because my aunt lives in Australia and I assist my my sister, but she's definitely. She's definitely got a better layering technique than I have.

Becky Hadeed

I see.

Kate Jack

So yes. I think also for my family, it's what's, you know, the must have Christmas pudding, so there's some things that we just have every Christmas and you know the salads change depending on who comes. Do they want to make potato salad or rice salad or whatever? But and some of the puddings also change. It can be Pavlova, or trifle or. Cheesecake or brownies or whatever. But we always, always, always have pepper crisp pudding that's always there.

Becky Hadeed

This government is putting is the constant.

Kate Jack

Yes, it is always the constant.

Becky Hadeed

Yes yes. So for people listening who haven't seen the Christmas around the world episode. Haven't seen the pictures of it. Go ahead and describe the layers of the peppermint crisp.

Kate Jack

Case so it would be made with. Caramel so it caramelized condensed milk, or we can actually in South Africa we can buy it just as a product really made terrible so it's. Kind of gooey, sweet, creamy caramel and then that's layered with tennis biscuits which are kind. Of quite sweet. Crackers I guess. I don't know I'm describing. Well, but so they actually have coconut in them and they're bit sweet. And they're kind of crumbly. Maybe like a cookie. But yeah, cookie cracker type thing.

Becky Hadeed

Do you know I didn't know I bought something that I thought was the most similar to them. I did not know that tennis biscuits have coconut in them.

Kate Jack

Yeah, so I think like sometimes they. Can't even be called coconut biscuits. But it's not like the dominant flavor, but I think that is. It's that they are in them, they're just not. Like a sweet

Becky Hadeed

Yeah, interesting, interesting. I don't know what that.

Kate Jack

I don't know what what would be American. I I yes, so probably not a team land or no wouldn't be totally equivalent.

Becky Hadeed

You said Graham crackers wouldn't be. Yeah, but you're right, you're right there. The Graham cracker is a little more crumbly and this kind of biscuits a little more firm. I'm trying to remember what I used so I can say it out loud right now, but. Oh I, I don't. I don't quite remember what I used, but if you look in. The show notes it'll. Be in there. If you look at the recipe I I did put in everything that I used to Americanize this because yeah, I couldn't. Yeah, I couldn't find. I couldn't find a lot of the things, especially this peppermint crisp. This is a very South African thing.

Kate Jack

I think so so so people and Chris bidding for our family has always been a Christmas pudding, but it's actually. It's not a Christmas pudding. Generally in South Africa, so people use it at all times of the year for different celebrations or meals and. It's the peppermint crisp, the chocolate the candy. You can eat all year on but and well and so and pudding tea. But then the pudding, the key one of the key ingredients is this pepper and crisp, which is it's quite unusual candy that it's it's like crispy peppermint inside, not like a soft pavement inside. And then. Suddenly of chocolate around the outside and so to make paper for spitting. Yeah, this layer of caramel layer of cream layer of biscuit and and then a layer of chopped up pepper crisp like. Think of an equivalent, and I don't think there is. I think it is just a South African candy. I don't know if it's fun in other countries.

Becky Hadeed

Well, I I looked it up and so this this I'll tell you what I ended up using and I I'm ashamed to admit this to you. It actually didn't have a peppermint flavor because when I I know when I looked it up I. Thought to myself, oh, that looks like a Nestle Crunch bar and so and at Christmas time in the US they do come out with a peppermint flavored Nestle Crunch bar. And I also did think that Nestle is actually. Isn't it a South African company? Or maybe it there seemed to be a strong connection between this. Slate in South Africa. Although I can't recall it at the moment and. So I used. A Nestle Crunch bar which is like the crunch, comes from actually, I think, more like dried. Have you ever had like rice crispy cereal? Yes yes. I think. The crunch comes from something a little bit more like that. It's not except for. It's not airy. And so I I use that just because I could easily put my hands on it. It looked like it. And because at Christmas time they do come out with a peppermint version. So that's that's. Oh, I think when I looked on Amazon, I think I actually looked for a peppermint crisp bar and they did sell it. It was incredibly expensive, but it was. It was made by Nestle, and so I was like, OK, I thought. That's like the Nestle Crunch. But I don't know what do you think.

Kate Jack

Like the right texture, but that's totally fine. You have to try and make a plan with what you've got, yeah?

Becky Hadeed

So on Amazon, the Peppermint crisp bar is. It's $25 for six, so that's like $4 a bar.

Kate Jack

That sounds insane. No, that's ridiculous.

Becky Hadeed

Yeah, that's something.

Kate Jack

It's not. It's not a fancy chocolate in South Africa at all, so there is. South, I think Nestle is Swiss, but there's definitely they've got they. In South Africa, so like it's South African made candy in South Africa. Maybe they've they've got a South African base here. Yeah, so the local one of the local. Chocolates that you can and right can. You can get to South Africa, right?

Becky Hadeed

Right, and even if you get it on Amazon, it does say product of South Africa, so it's made it is made there.

Kate Jack

Yeah yeah yeah, yeah. So it's not. It's not a it's not a fancy one at all. I'm I'm trying to think so. I used to I lived in. Ethiopia for a little while and one. Time I brought back Peter and Chris. From South Africa's Ethiopian and made paper and Chris. Pudding and an American was. They said this tastes like Christmas well.

Becky Hadeed

Yes, the chocolate peppermint combination for sure.

Kate Jack

Right, and so I'm just trying to think if you can find like you said, maybe the Nestle bar in over Christmas time you could use that, but like I don't know if you could maybe replicate it with like other pigments candies that are maybe hard candies that you just break up into little pieces and then.

Becky Hadeed

Yes, well.

Kate Jack

You know I have chocolate and. Then I break that up into little. Pieces that might replicate. The the taste.

Becky Hadeed

The other thing I wondered if I could do, but again I was trying to like produce so many of these desserts so quickly to to photograph that I thought, well, as long as it looks somewhat faithful. So it's like really popular here in the US. We make peppermint bark. So we you basically just melt. Chocolate, and then you've pounded up candy canes, you know, and you sprinkle it on top and then it all hardens together.

Kate Jack

Yes, yes.

Becky Hadeed

So I think if you if you did that and then kind of broke that. Up then you would have definitely the the chocolate and like the hard peppermint you would have that and I I feel like I still wanna do it because I I know we emailed about this. I'm really having trouble reconciling the caramel and peppermint. I've never seen those flavors together.

Kate Jack

OK, so they work out really, really well. That's so funny that yeah. It's just such a standard. To say it so, like I don't. It's not popular in other ways, yeah, and trying to think how else we eat caramel like. Surely you only eat it in because pudding or. Banoffee pie a little bit, you know which is more like British dessert, but. Stephanie Pepper and Chris. It's more common than being occupied. Yeah, in South Africa, yeah. Yeah, I definitely think doing the candy cane the Pittman kind of candy cane and breaking that that up quite a bit and. Then either making the bark or just chopping up plain chocolate into little pieces and then using that as like mixing that with the candy cane and then using that as a sprinkle on one of the layers, I think. That could work quite well to get that like a truck.

Becky Hadeed

That would be a more faithful yeah, a more so it's quite a strong peppermint flavor.

Kate Jack

Uhm, no, I wouldn't even use. It's not super strong, no? And it's not actually like the the pavement inside bit of a pavement. Chris isn't solid like a candy cane and it's kind of flaky.

Becky Hadeed

Well, it's softened with all that. Yeah, it's it's been. I mean, it's been in this layered. It's dessert frozen and then defrosted, so yeah, it's definitely softened.

Kate Jack

So it's not just like you're biting down on these chunks of pepper, right? It's more just like getting a bit of pavement.

Becky Hadeed

A little hit yes, a jolt yes OK got it, got it, got it.

Kate Jack

It's it's like. It's good they hit a. They hit a peppermint. Yes, yes.

Becky Hadeed

Yeah and describe once you told me about this once you taught me this I googled it and it's it's not that unusual, but in case it's unusual to. Others, can you? Describe the process, especially if they're going to go back and read through your recipe. For making the caramel from the sweetened condensed milk, this was brand new to me.

Kate Jack

Sure, so it's a bit embarrassing. I haven't actually ever done that. That's OK, we always just buy the ready prepared caramel. And in South Africa it's called caramel treat. But it's. Basically a ton of caramel, yeah, caramelized condensed milk, but I think the process is that you get a ton of condensed milk and then you take the outer paper wrapper off. And then sometimes if the wrapper has a glue attached to it, yes, you need to stick it onto the tin and you just scrape that blew off, 'cause otherwise you're going to basically be boiling it in that in that that's sealed in water, so you don't want the glue to melt off the tin and then land.

Becky Hadeed

Right?

Kate Jack

On your part.

Becky Hadeed

Right? And then yeah.

Kate Jack

And then I think. You boil it for a few hours. But kind of at quite a low temperature, so it's not. Or healing boiling, it's yeah. Just kind of simmering, yeah?

Becky Hadeed

It's the marine.

Kate Jack

Yeah, I think that's more the. The impression and then yeah, when you open it up it it caramelises inside, but I don't speak from actual personal experience. I remember my aunt telling me about the the blutrich.

Becky Hadeed

Yes, yeah. Well, this is just fascinating to me because I mean have. You seen her do it? Do you know? I I guess. Well, my first thought was doesn't it explode, but I guess it's truly truly vacuum packed, so none of that. I guess I just feel like when something heats like it expands. So how does? That how does. That not explode. That's that's just a science question. I'll have to ask one of my kids, but also, I guess because it's not evaporating, none of the IT. It doesn't the. The liquid level doesn't lower, it's still the same amount, it's just that the sugars have caramelized inside the tin.

Kate Jack

So I was reading it up a little bit and it sounds like it's actually the milk reaction. There's some like reaction that's happening with the milk and I guess condensed milk doesn't have much liquid in it anyway, like it's, you know, like condensed milk obviously has some liquid in it, but it's you know so much. Sugar, sugar, milk ratios, the ratio of sugar. So there's a lot of sugar. In it, so maybe that's one reason why it doesn't expand because there's actually not that much water in it and I've condenser.

Becky Hadeed

Ah, huh. Yeah, yes. Well, this is definitely something to try. I think I need to do a second pass at this. Dessert because I did nothing, nothing the. OK. Way your family does it.

Kate Jack

That's like it still looks beautiful. And it. Sounded like it tasted yummy too so.

Becky Hadeed

Ohh I I think I told you I think like the last step is to freeze it and then you defrost it and it never made. I did. I did put it in the fridge for a couple hours, but then after I photographed it like literally my family. So I have four sons, so my 4 kids and my husband just stood around the island. I mean no plates, no bowls. Everybody's just scooping out of it. I think I. Nephew was here and he maybe got his own bowls since he's not quite immediate family and it was delicious. Yeah, so if if you're listening and you like the idea of this dessert, there's a lot of ways to make it happen. I mean, listen, it's just another cold, gooey sweet. Layered dessert like you just can't go wrong.

Kate Jack

You're putting a whole lot of yummy ingredients together. They get that big. So I don't.

Becky Hadeed

Right?

Kate Jack

Think it's yeah essential to freeze it. I think you know my my aunt and my mom used to like like doing that because it's just something you can make ahead so you don't have to make it the. Day before or you know. You can make it a few weeks before or whatever, as long as you can withstand not eating it before Christmas, but it just makes it. It just makes the Christmas prep easier.

Becky Hadeed

Right, right?

Kate Jack

Frozen made before frozen for a few weeks and then just brought. Start on the day to defrost. Yeah and then it it. It does last in the visa which is just a benefit to Prep, but it's not actually essential. You probably want to leave it in the fridge for, but just. To kind of the biscuits and everything. Kind of to mush together.

Becky Hadeed

Yes, yes yeah. And it was in there long enough for that to happen, and I think the other thing we. Neglected to say because I started to like. Really push you on these ingredients. Is that the caramel layer you mix it with? Like whipped cream.

Kate Jack

So there's two ways of making the pudding. You could either mix it with the whipped cream, or you could actually go and keep it separate, but you just layer. It's kind of wine on top of the other, so then it ends up kind.

Becky Hadeed

OK.

Kate Jack

Of it does kind. Of end up mixing right?

Becky Hadeed

But it's right, OK?

Kate Jack

Delay in place so my auto is used to make it. It's not mixed, but I think the traditional, more traditional way of doing it in South Africa is to mix the cream and the and the caramel together. They're both tasty and slightly different texture.

Becky Hadeed

OK. Right, right? So yeah, either way, people know there's a. There's an added creamy element for extra extra magic, yeah?

Kate Jack

Oh yes. And it just like this makes the biscuits just. Yeah, it's probably got a bit more moisture, so it just makes the biscuit more squishy and gooey.

Becky Hadeed

Right? So delicious, so delicious and I feel like the one thing we haven't really talked about is. Well, this is. So interesting as I talk to people. I guess I never really thought about how we use the term Christmas very generically to apply to like this entire season and for some people Advent is a huge deal and then it ends on Christmas Day. Now I've talked to people where Christmas Day is kind. Of almost the. Beginning and then it goes to Epiphany. Some people Christmas Eve is the main event and Christmas Day is just relax. So in in South Africa, I guess in general or maybe just more specifically in your family, what was like the Christmas season and then what? What did you do to celebrate as you went along? Not just on Christmas Day.

Kate Jack

So there definitely is a before Christmas season. Partly that's commercial, you know, like you like I said in the in the shopping centers, there'll be Christmas carols playing and Christmas decorations and and people will start putting up Christmas trees and Christmas decorations. And that in in their houses. And there'll be lights, even though our light out so you talk about later, we still do Christmas lights some some people did in the houses. It's not super common. But they definitely are people who do. That and then in the city. For example, there's a light. Display so Christmas Carol like outdoor Christmas Carol. Events are quite popular. Like in gardens, botanical gardens or Outside in the community that that would definitely be happening, school Christmas plays are reasonably popular, so Carol services at schools. Our schools end. For the school year in. Beginning of December or now. Kind of more mid-december. It's kind of the end of year thing.

Becky Hadeed

Oh right, you get Christmas. Yes, you get Christmas over summer break. I can think about. This, like it, is truly, truly relaxed.

Kate Jack

Yes, so like it's change of the school year, it's a change of the calendar year, so just a random random story with that. So our Father Christmas always used to bring us our stationary for the next year.

Becky Hadeed

Your 2023 station or your new year? Yeah, that's. So cool, Yep.

Kate Jack

Yep, so like with the. Glue and scissors and markers and. And then we'll get some. Other like little candy and things. Like that too, but definitely station me like the stationery list we got from. School would appear in our stocking every year.

Becky Hadeed

Oh that's oh. Yeah, yeah, like your school supplies I see, yeah.

Kate Jack

Yes, maybe get a school backpack you know, or whatever you know some school supplies would definitely be included in Christmas presents.

Becky Hadeed

Well, yeah, it's also synchronized. The end of the year, the end of the school year. This makes so much sense.

Kate Jack

So often you know, so it is still quite popular to have an end of school year. Thing would be a Carol service or nativity play would be an end of year.

Becky Hadeed

In your schools.

Kate Jack

Thanks for your help.

Becky Hadeed

You would do a Nativity play like a religious nativity play.

Kate Jack

Yes, I'm trying to think how. Popular, it's still more. In junior schools. Maybe less so now, because schools are more mixed and there's definitely more religions, so our school people still like singing carols so our school does. When it's not a. We actually do it at a local church, so our school students can, I guess choose to be part of it if they want to.

Becky Hadeed

Oh OK, uh-huh.

Kate Jack

And yeah, so it's not a. It's not a school school event, but it is kind of, but I think it's really yeah, we.

Becky Hadeed

Right, I see.

Kate Jack

It's not like everyone has to be part of it because it's the. School thing but. It's right, people who choose to yeah.

Becky Hadeed

I see. And then.

Kate Jack

And then yeah, so smoking I mean.

Becky Hadeed

Also, sorry.

Kate Jack

You know Christmas. So and for my family, Christmas Day was definitely the big lunch. Big events sometimes on Christmas Eve would do like a small because there was a big extended family thing on Christmas Day. Sometimes on Christmas Eve would do. Maybe a smaller family thing, or we'd go to. Church maybe Christmas Eve, afternoon or with her Christmas midnight. Just so the fairies, I think quite a bit, I know quite a few people who still also do Christmas Eve and then maybe Christmas Day isn't such a. Big event for them. So I think it really depends on different families. Yeah, probably good Christmas days will be good, but. It's it really. It's up to different families.

Becky Hadeed

Yeah, I think I think it depends a little bit. Also on I think you know if you're Catholic. Christmas Eve just tends to be a big day, and their religious calendar, so that tends to be the bigger celebration as well.

Kate Jack

Sure, and so in the same way. Also with Advent. Are you just are you doing Carol services or going to Christmas parties like? They are. They're like children's outdoor Christmas parties where they they're fundraising events. But Father Christmas comes and they sing some songs and. Yeah, they just have a picnic outside. Yeah, and so that will be happening before Christmas and then Christmas Day would happen. And then there'd be some things after Christmas. So Epiphany would be really maybe, if you're Anglican, not. It's not really such a big thing. The post Christmas.

Becky Hadeed

But your family did it kind of end on. Did it end on? On Christmas Day. The celebrations.

Kate Jack

Mostly I think also because everyone brought their own, brought, you know future share on our Christmas lunch. Often there wasn't huge amounts of leftovers or people were taking in various bits of leftovers home. Sometimes we don't. We left us like chicken or whatever, which is a nice way, but. We wouldn't be doing silly Christmas things for too long afterwards. Right, and I guess then the next. Generally, between Christmas and New Year is holidays for everyone. Like school is still. On holiday or vacation I guess, and most people do take off and like businesses often close between Christmas and New Year. And so it's. Really is a holiday season for most people. So going to the beach or. Relaxing in various ways that would still be happening.

Becky Hadeed

Right, right, you're still. On breaks but. You're yeah, Christmas is kind of behind you except for your your relaxing. And yeah, I think that's how it is mostly here in the US. Yeah yeah. So one last question. When you when you said that occasionally you've been? Swimming on Christmas Day. Where was that? Was that at the pool, or was it at? The beach where was that?

Kate Jack

So it's. Reasonably common for people to have their own pools and their gardens, so we where we would do Christmas. We'd we'd go to a family member's house and we'd have Christmas Day. So in the house, in the garden, and. If they had a pool in the where there was decent, we'd end up in the pool, yeah, so it'd be a pool in someone's like the private pool in the garden.

Becky Hadeed

I see, yeah, I see wonderful love it. Yes, love it. Well I you gave us yeah such a wonderful visual and some great memories. Did you have anything else you wanted to share?

Kate Jack

Just related to random story related to the pool is a thing that's become a yeah a thing after Christmas is we have Lilas? Which are I don't know. That's the South African word, but basically like inflatable small pool, inflatable raft things, and.

Becky Hadeed

Oh yeah.

Kate Jack

And it's turned into a pool bar quite often at my aunts house because aunt and uncles house because it has like little holes in it. I guess for floating, but we fill fill them with ice and then we put drinks in them and then we all put them on the pool. We'll sit in the pool or with our feet floating in the pool and then we like. Lilo just splits around and then with drinks in it, and so it's just kind of this cool bar, which is, yeah, something. That's that's amazing.

Becky Hadeed

That is just an amazing amazing Christmas visual. I love it. Well how how about New Year's? I guess the same thing you can celebrate. I mean is it light until 10:00 o'clock at night on New Year's? Thank you.

Kate Jack

Not that late. So I guess where we are, we don't. What time does it get dark? Yep, right in Cape Town we have quite a long dusk period so it gets dark gradually, but eight ish. I'm not going to check the time it is. The second phase is 10, and that's often it would be an outdoor event and with rice or BBQ.

Becky Hadeed

OK.

Kate Jack

Type food then would be. Camping, UM 'cause I would ever be on vacation, so yeah it should be some.

Becky Hadeed

Right?

Kate Jack

Relaxed outdoor event most most likely.

Becky Hadeed

Amazing yeah your your Christmas and New Years is similar in a lot of ways to our 4th of July which is almost you know, polar. Right? Opposite the time of the, you know, for the time of the year and the and. The season. So amazing how much our celebrations are dictated by. Just weather in our memories yeah, so interesting to think about yeah, well thank you so much Kate.

Kate Jack

I'm sleepy.

Becky Hadeed

Is there anything else you wanted to say?

Kate Jack

No, I don't think so.

Becky Hadeed

OK, I've loved this. This has been so fun.

Kate Jack

It's been so fun to chat with.

Becky Hadeed

You, oh, it's.

Kate Jack

I remember all the stories, so thank you so.

Becky Hadeed

Much, yes, it's been absolutely my fit. Sorry my pleasure. And what's that word, again, like, uh Leila, a floating in the pool. Oh lylo alilo. I'm always gonna think of that now on Christmas a lie. Low in the pool. I'll be jealous of you.

Kate Jack

I'll try, I'll send. You a picture of a of the.

Becky Hadeed

Pool bar? Yeah, let's do that. Do that please do. Please do all right. Well, thank you so much, Kate. I hope you have a great evening. You too thank you. Take care OK bye bye.

Kate Jack

OK I have.

Becky Hadeed

Thank you all again for listening. I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much. As I did. You can find Kate's recipe for the peppermint crisp pudding on the website right there in the show notes, you can see a link. You can also try out. Any of the Christmas desserts around the world that were contributed by the storied recipe podcast community men. Yours, that link is in the show notes. As well and. You can listen to all the episodes. In this series. We've got Palestine, Spain, South Africa, France and Norway. Of course, yes, yes. Picturesque Norway. Thank you all so much for tuning in. I hope you have a great week. My friends.