Eddie Jones is one of the finest, sharpest and most inventive coaches in rugby union and this year he will lead England to a World Cup.

In this episode of the new in-depth Times Sport podcast, LifeTimes, he describes how he has always been an outsider, why his drive to create conflict once led him to kiss an opponent and how he has had to evolve as a coach and a person.

In an hour with Matt Dickinson he also speaks of his grandparents’ experience in an American internment camp, the mistakes he made with Australia and the books he believes have made him a better coach.

Make sure you subscribe so that you never miss an episode, including the opening show with Paul Pogba and the second episode with England forward Fran Kirby.

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