SL097: Storytelling, Body Language, and Public Speaking

Storytelling, Body Language, and Public Speaking James Taylor interviews Nick Morgan and they talked about, storytelling, body language, and public speaking.

In today's episode Nick Morgan talked about Storytelling, Body Language, and Public Speaking.

Dr Nick Morgan is one of America’s top communication speakers, theorists and coaches. A passionate teacher, he is committed to helping people find clarity in their thinking and ideas – and then delivering them with panache. He has been commissioned by Fortune 50 companies to write for many CEOs and presidents. He has coached people to give Congressional testimony, to appear in the media, and to deliver an unforgettable TED talk. And he has himself spoken, led conferences, and moderated panels at venues around the world. During the last American election cycle, he provided expert commentary on the presidential debates for CNN and Nick’s methods, which are well-known for challenging conventional thinking, have been published worldwide. His acclaimed book on public speaking, Give Your Speech, Change the World: How to Move Your Audience to Action., was published by Harvard in 2005. His latest book, Can You Hear Me?, on the perils of virtual communication, is due out from Harvard in October 2018.

What we cover:

• The art and craft of telling great stories

• Storytelling, Body Language, and Public Speaking

• How to ensure you don’t waste the opening of your speech

• The three versions of your speech you should prepare

Resources:

• Dr. Morgan's Website

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Read full transcript at https://speakersu.com/storytelling-body-language-and-public-speaking-sl097/

James Taylor Hi, it's James Taylor, founder of SpeakersU. Today's episode was first aired as part of International Speakers Summit the world's largest online event for professional speakers. And if you'd like to access the full video version, as well as in depth sessions with over 150 top speakers, then I've got a very special offer for you. Just go to InternationalSpeakersSummit.com, where you'll be able to register for a free pass for the summit. Yep, that's right 150 of the world's top speakers sharing their insights, strategies and tactics on how to launch grow and build a successful speaking business. So just go to InternationalSpeakersSummit.com but not before you listen to today's episode.

Hey there, it's James Taylor. I'm delighted today to be joined by Dr. Nick Morgan. Dr. Nick Morgan is one of America's top communication speakers, theorists and coaches. A passionate Teacher He is committed to helping people to find clarity in their thinking and ideas, and then delivering them with panache. He has been commissioned by Fortune 50 companies to write for many CEOs and presidents. He has coached people to give congressional testimony to appear in the media and to deliver an unforgettable TED Talk. And he has himself spoken led conferences and moderated panels at venues around the world. During the last American election cycle, he provided expert commentary on the presidential debates for CNN and Nick methods, which are well known for challenging conventional thinking have been published worldwide. His acclaimed book on public speaking give your speech changed the world how to move your audience to action was published by Harvard in 2005. His latest book, can you hear me on the perils of virtual communication is due out from Harvard in October 2018. It's my great pleasure to have Dr. Nick Morgan, join us today. So welcome.

Dr. Nick Morgan Thank you, James. It's great pleasure to be with you.

James Taylor So share with everyone what's going on in your world just now.

Dr. Nick Morgan Well, I'm just finishing up the book that you referenced the Can you hear me book, which Harvard is now very anxious about, I'm facing a tight deadline. And they're committed now to publishing it on a certain schedule. So they're very anxious that I get it done. And they call me regularly now and ask for after my health and my ability to focus and whether I have enough coffee to drink and that kind of thing. So that's the main thing on my mind that and, and the business goes on taking care of clients,

James Taylor I was just reading a book called Hemingway's boat, talking about his Hemingway's writing career. And he had exactly the same thing because Hemingway is building this lovely boat. And, and he would write in order to pay for things on this boat that he was building. And it just is a series of kind of exchanges between him and his editors and his publishers like, when's this gonna be ready? Where's this gonna be ready? So is this is this this next book we are doing just now? Is it any easier than the last book or is it is still difficult every time you have to write a book like this,

Dr. Nick Morgan I'd love to write, I'm one of those few people that you're free to hate, because I really do love to write. But that said, This book has been harder than any of the others. You just, it turns out that we don't know enough yet about the virtual world. We're just we're just discovering all its perils, as well as its opportunities. And, and new research comes in all the time, on an almost on a daily basis. In fact, literally just this morning, I was working on a chapter. And I got a Zirin. Online saying there's this new study out about, about virtual communication and how it affects us emotionally. And it's that kind of thing that it's just getting very difficult. I have to keep revising it and changing it to keep up with the time. So this has actually been the most difficult to work to work on because of that fast changing environment. Now you're

James Taylor known for working and really helping many corporate CEOs, presidents, politicians, and also some of the world's most high profile professional speakers. I mean, I think of some of the people that we've got on this, like, you know, there's something like Josh Linkner and Sally hogshead. And many of these people are your clients. How did you get into this, this world of working with with people who have to use their voice to kind of make their living or persuade,

Dr. Nick Morgan I was teaching at the University of Virginia. I was teaching Shakespeare in public speaking. And I expected to be an academic for the rest of my life and, and just teach increasingly indifferent undergraduates in the arts of Shakespeare and public speaking, which they were very happy to live without. An only took the course, with the greatest reluctance it seemed. And I got a phone call from a friend of mine, who was the State Secretary of Education for Virginia. And he said, Morgan, how would you like to put that academic Bs, that academic stuff into practice, the previous speechwriter has just had a nervous breakdown, and we need a replacement on short notice. And I should have asked why did the previous speech writer have a nervous breakdown but I was so excited about the challenge. That I just said, Sure, let's do it. And then I found out over the course of the next two years why he'd had a nervous breakdown. It was certainly because of overwork. I literally worked seven days a week, for two years, with one day off Christmas Day, one of the years. And I wrote on average, five speeches a day. So it was an incredible experience of just flat out work, every waking hour, exhausting, but also very rewarding. And that was where I really honed the craft of, of speech, writing, and then coaching in the real world. And then I joined a couple of consulting firms to do that for business people, and then started my own business in 1997. Public words,

James Taylor how I'm wondering how long it when you're working for that Governor there, because you're working for him all the time. You get to know his cadence, his voice, you know, what he would say, when you're having to work with multiple consulting clients are all coming from slightly different ways and different things? How do you get yourself into the head of that person, because eventually, they're going to be seeing the words that you're going to be creating. And it may be in large part, because of you Well, I

Dr. Nick Morgan say to people that what I really do is I listen harder to you, the client, than anybody else in the world will ever listen to you, including your spouse or significant other. And that's exactly what I have to do in order to get that person's voice is I have to listen very, very closely to try to hear that, to hear that uniqueness. What makes them special, what makes them unique. And then also, of course, what we're trying to do is up their game a little bit, so I may take the liberty of trying to make their voice a little better than then they might be just a normal conversation.

James Taylor I was recently I attended a an event and the speaker was former US president, President Obama. And I was I was watching it was great, great talk he gave, he used to use, I mean, fake classical oratory, or rhetorical devices, and a lot of pausing much as I was sitting actually almost kind of trying to work out how many words per minute he was using was really quite slow and very, very deliberate, very, very intentional. And it was some real kind of zinger phrases kind of going on there, at Wow, made me able to, like create those phrases. And and I watched a documentary The other day. And it was actually his speechwriter was in this. And I actually watched him creating some of those phrases that I'd heard on that night, because he used them previously. And I kind of felt a little bit led them because I felt kind of I thought that that President had created the written note that stuff. And actually it was some speechwriter that was sitting in the background. So how does it feel? Maybe sitting at the side of the room, or the back of the room, or sitting there watching the TV as your words are being being set out? And what's that sensation, when you when you know, something is really landed?

Dr. Nick Morgan Yes, it's, it's the most exciting thing in the world, when it goes well, you just feel enormous pride, and you're part of a team. So you, you may have originally written the words or helped create them, because usually, it's a give and take between you in the in the in the client. But then when the when the speaker gets up, and gives the words, then he or she owns them completely. So all you can do is is bask in the reflected glow. But that's, that's just a very satisfying thing. When it goes well. When it goes badly, and they screw it up, which sometimes happens, then you want to you want to pull the microphone, let's say pull the cord and shut them up. I I've had that experience occasionally too, though, thankfully, not recently to any of you clients who might be listening.

James Taylor So as you as you work when you're working with those clients, I'm wondering, I'm guessing many of your clients are already probably pretty good public speakers, whether they're a CEO, the app developer, you know, the the maybe have a strong communication style, they may be professional speakers or politicians who are used to speaking all the time. What they bring you in, is it to just to really kind of create that, to really just make it make it absolutely 100% perfect, or is it something else that they're really wanting you to come in and do that kind of deep listening you described,

Dr. Nick Morgan people often don't know the stories that they have, because they've lived them. And they don't know the power of them. They've they've experienced them. chronologically, of course, that's the way we experience our lives. But the best stories are often told, not in chronological fashion, but beginning at the last possible moment, as I often tell people in the story. So you want to begin as Aristotle said in medius race you want to begin right at the latest possible point in the story at the most exciting point. And then if you have to fill in back material then you can do that as you go along. But most of us when we tell stories, we go back to the beginning in our minds, and we tell it in chronological order. And that's not usually the most interesting way to tell the story. But it's very hard for somebody who's lived it that way to break out of that mold and tell it differently. And so one of the things I'm often doing is helping the client find out the best version of their lives or the stories they've experienced. The points they want to make, in a way that's, that becomes memorable.

James Taylor Oh, that reminds me a little bit of how TV shows have changed. Now we're like Breaking Bad to a TV show, they'll always have a scene right at the start, which is taken from halfway through to the thing. So whether it's a hero's journey type narrative that's kind of going on, and it just hooks you in right at the start, you want to go, what was that about. And it's, it can be a little bit discombobulating at first, when it starts like that, but it's intrigues you you want you want to you want to go on. And as you're working with those, those speakers, so that you're helping them can maybe understand and pull out those parts, those stories, how much you pulling on some of those classic, you know, we hear like the hero's journey, the Joseph Campbell type of thing, or that we hear that he's only really seven classic plots to his storytelling as well, how much you pulling on your academic and your classical background?

Dr. Nick Morgan Well, I was I was trained in rhetoric, and the ancient Greeks and Romans. And so it's shocking how often those stories and rhetorical devices are still the ones that that make for good rhetoric today, we also bring in a lot of neuroscience. So that's, that's very modern, to help with delivery, especially, we now have a better understanding of what's effective in in delivery. But the basic old stories still hold very, very true. And, indeed, they're the powerful ones. One of the great mistakes people make nowadays. And I think TV is partly to blame is in in television, there's this huge fear that you're going to lose the audience. And so they're constantly shocking us. And you mentioned beginning of show in the middle of things, that's a good idea. But often, there's an element of shock there that the hero that we've gotten to know over the period of several episodes is suddenly dead. And then it'll say 18 hours earlier, and it will go back to explain what happened to them. And then it'll turn out actually wasn't dead, there was some trick involved in that kind of, sort of deliberately shocking, but not very well plotted. storyline is to keep our attention. So this is terrible fear, you're going to lose the attention. But actually, what the neuroscience about storytelling shows us is that good storytelling involves fulfilling expectations that the listener has. And so it's not about shocking the listener, it's about fulfilling the expectations that the listener has for how the story is going to go. And so we do use these. When we're writing our best speeches, we use the old storylines, like the quest, you mentioned, the hero's journey. That's best defined by Joseph Campbell, in his book, The hero with 1000 faces, in which as an anthropologist, he went out to many, many cultures, and found that was this common theme of a quest story where the hero goes out on a journey in order to reach a goal. And the longer and the more difficult the journey in the end, the greater the ups and downs, and the harder the journey is, the better we like it. Because the real purpose of that journey is to test the resolve of the hero. And that's what that's what quest stories are really about. And that's still the most common form of story, we all resonate with them. all cultures have quest stories. And so they make great speeches, because you can set a goal in the speech that then the audience wants to join in on and then suddenly, the audience is all in on that quest with you, you can make the audience the hero of that journey, which is far more effective than making yourself to hear the story. And so there's still lots of reasons to use the power of these ancient storytelling modes, versions. And, and the point is that even though we know what the result of a quest is, we still love to hear that particular quest, because that shape of that story has stood the test of time it's baked into us. We love it, and we're familiar with it. And part of the joy of hearing a good story told is that we have the moment just before the end where we go, yeah, I knew that was gonna happen. We have that sense of fulfilling expectations. That's much better than trying to shock your audience by saying it was all a dream or none of this actually happened or the other kind of silly plot tricks that that the back to our example television often uses these days. He used that

James Taylor example, you know, making the the audience the hero of the journey. If you think about it, because I made a terrible mistake in early speech I did, where I'd been getting really into all the Joseph Campbell stuff. And there's there's been subsequent books on that type of writing and, and that, you know, theories around that. And so I want to write a hero's journey Titan speech, and I wrote it and making myself the hero of the journey, and I delivered it and it was it was like it was fine and everything wasn't terrible, but it just didn't really kind of resonate, resonate. And then someone said to me, Well, you just said to me just there, I said, You've got it all wrong, you know, you need to make the audience the hero of the journey. And I went, ah, how did how can we subdominant not do that. And I had to kind of go back. So as someone that maybe has heard this, like the hero's journey, how do you make your audience the hero of a journey? Because that sounds quite complex as well. And you speak you speak to maybe 1000 people? How can 1000 people be beat at the hero?

Dr. Nick Morgan Now the first question you have to ask yourself is, what is the problem or challenge or fear that the audience has, for which what I want to talk about is the answer. And so let's say you're an IT specialists just to pick something out of the air, and you want to talk about cybersecurity, then you need to start your audience on a quest to finding cybersecurity by talking about their very natural and understandable fears of all the ways in which hackers and and, and state terrorist organizations and all the other bad guys that we think about out there now can can hack their, their credit cards online or their accounts online or whatever. And the point is to get the audience nodding, and thinking, yeah, that is the state of things today. Oh, it is, it's very scary, it is very uncertain, we're, we are indeed worried about that. And that preps them, then for the solution, when you offer it when you're your version of however, you're going to achieve cybersecurity and that so you're taking the audience on that journey from fear and an understanding of what they're going through to ultimately to a goal, which is to find a clever solution for that problem. And so that at a very simple level is how you, how do you make the audience the hero of it, because if you focus on them and their problems, rather than saying, I've figured out cybersecurity, I'm a genius, let me tell you the 12 ways to get there, then that's very off putting for an audience and it doesn't it doesn't enroll them in the in the journey in a way that is compelling. And one

James Taylor of the things because you're seeing speakers speak all the time delivering speeches, and now we're just obviously awash with like things like Ted Talks, for example. And so many of your clients have, they come to you because they're giving their first TED talk or giving a TED talk. And it's, and they want to go on that journey and really give them give their best time. But I'm wondering, what are some of those things that really put your hackles up and that really, with a speaker, you just the common like things that they end up falling into that you have to really work with them to try and break out of a, one of those some of those bad habits that we have as speakers,

Dr. Nick Morgan the one that infuriates me the most, and there are many, but the one that infuriates me the most is wasting the opening of a, of a speech. So at the beginning of a speech, the audience is most eager to hear from you. And and they're freshest, and they haven't started to object to you one way or the other. It's all it's all good at this point. And and they're asking the question of why, why should I care about this? Why is it important? And and speakers? instead of answering that question, why that's, that's what you should do at the beginning is answer that question, why very clearly and strongly it can be done with a story, it can be done with something as simple as a factoid or a question. But I prefer stories, obviously. But what speakers do often instead is they do one of three things. First, they introduce themselves, they say, let me tell you about me or my company. And the result, the result of that is course is you don't answer the question why and frankly, the audience doesn't care. If especially if you've been introduced, they certainly don't need to hear any more about you. And so that's a classic mistake that that speakers make. The second one is they give an agenda. They say, if I were going to talk to you, in effect, this is what I would say. So they and I believe people need agendas, if you're going to talk to them for a whole day if it's a workshop, but if it's only an hour, we can live without an agenda. In fact, it'd be nice to have a little element of surprise along the way. So don't tell us what you're going to say. Because what happens is if you start saying, okay, here's what I'm going to talk about. What I've noticed the behavior I've noticed in conferences is that people go immediately to their mobile phones. And they think I can get one more text message. And one more email done before this person actually starts talking, because he or she is just is just setting things up not actually beginning. And we've learned to, to wait for the actual start. And then the third thing is, and the worst. And surprisingly, this is the hardest to get speakers not to do is to chat. So the urge for speakers to walk out on stage and say, Oh, it's great to be here. Anybody else here from Singapore? Oh, I see a few hands. Wonderful. How are things back there and synched up or Been a while I've been on the road, and they just they just chatter. And the reason for that is, they're trying to make themselves feel more comfortable. But they inevitably defended as a way of making the audience relax and connecting with the audience. It has nothing to do with that. It's about making themselves feel more comfortable. But what a waste of time. Because the your, the audience, again, is at its freshest and most ready and most eager to hear why am I here? Why is this important? Why should I get excited, and back to your example of TV shows that now start in the middle? Because there, they don't want to waste that opening mental real estate. I always use the example of James Bond movies. And I hope people all around the world have seen that great franchise, which has gone on for 50 years or so. But how does the James Bond movie begin? Back in the in the in the day when it first started 1963, the first James Bond movie came out, it was quite a remarkable thing, because most movies in those days began with the credits. And so you'd get anywhere from five to seven minutes of just saying who's going to be in the movie, who's the director, who's the producer, who wrote the music, who's the cinematographer, on and on and on. And all of that was just set up for the movie, and you learn quickly that you could go and get popcorn or a drink or something, because nothing was going to happen for about seven minutes. Well, James Bond changed all that by beginning with a car chase, or an explosion, or some exciting fight or something like that. And then only after you were hooked with the credits roll. And so if you missed the opening, you missed the most exciting and most expensive part of the movie, typically until the very end. So people learned they had to be in at the beginning. And so I say the same thing to audiences to speakers and audiences everywhere. Don't waste that opening with credits, just get right to the the opening story, hook that audience grab them. And then if you must, if you absolutely must say something about yourself, do it 510 minutes into the speech and just keep it to an absolute minimum.

James Taylor And when you're working with speakers you're working on on the script, what they're saying the ideas, the stories within it as well. And, and the crafting of it. Where does the body language part come in? When do you start working with them on that part? Or do you end up having to bring in another because I know there's obviously experts to just deal with body language, especially in the political scene as well? Are you able to kind of deal with all of that with a client?

Dr. Nick Morgan Yes, I always divide it into two. Because what I found is that as soon as we start talking about body language, then that's all we can think about. People get self conscious. And they start to worry about how they're standing and what they're doing with their hands and what their face looks like all those things. And, and so we always begin with content. And I like to get the content completed and everybody feeling very confident and happy with the content. And then we'll start on the delivery, we call it the choreography day where we're arranging, how the client is going to walk on stage, how they're going to stand, where they're going to go, and what slides of course they're going to use or anything else they can use video, we've arranged sometimes to have music on stage with the with the speaker, and all sorts of light shows and all kinds of interesting things. So all of that comes later once you've got the content set. And that may come from my background in the acting world where an actor never walks on stage, unless they know what the lines are. And they've had a chance to do what he called blocking, which is to marry the the lines to a specific place and action on stage. Once you do that, then you can start to make it real and make it your own. embody it, literally. And so that's such an extraordinarily important stage in the preparation of a speech that I feel very strongly that people need to get the content down first, and then they can start rehearsing it. And I'm always unhappy when I see a speaker working up to the last minute on on changing the text and that kind of thing. Because usually it's a result of nervousness or fear and they're and they think if I just fix this one phrase, then I'll suddenly won't be nervous anymore. Well, unfortunately, we all get nervous for speeches, and that doesn't go away. And so it's the wrong place to put the put the focus but people do that.

James Taylor Yeah. What you described is is very, like an alchemy, I mean, some of the things you just described, you could be in ancient Greece, watching someone, you know, in terms of, you know, they had table reads back then or you know how they would have done it, but you know, blocking and some of those things that that we do now, obviously, memorization comes into that as well. So as we start to finish up here, I'm intrigued to know when you're going on working with with clients, what is in your, your speaker bag, what is in that bag that you take with you to all your, your engagements, when you're working with clients, many of the speakers we've had on this have talked about their clickers and the different things that they take them to their speaking engagement. But I mean, she guessed it, someone like yourself actually works for speakers in that way, what isn't, isn't your speaker bag,

Dr. Nick Morgan I always have some form of light, small camera, because there's, there's no better way to learn how a speech went, then, then, of course, to see yourself on video. The other thing I like to do is when I have the technology available, is to bring two cameras, one of which I put on the audience, because the ways in which you learn the most about a speech actually, is to do something which is a little hard for a speaker to do in the moment, which is to watch the audience listening to the speech and seeing how do they react? When do they start to get engaged? When do they get disengaged? Do they get bored? Do they start to twitch and look away and do they surreptitiously go for their mobile phones and that kind of thing. So you can learn an enormous amount by looking at a video of the audience. Now, that's not a video that 90% of the world would want to look at, it gets a bit dull, but, but for somebody like me, it's absolutely fascinating, fascinating way to learn how that speech is going over. So those are key. And then of course, I always bring double extra of everything. So extra clickers, extra copies of the slides, if they're slides extra everything because you never know what's gonna go wrong. And the other thing we do is we there are two key ways in which we always prepare speakers these days. One of them is always come ready with a short version of your speech. And it's just the reality in a conference that often the conference is running late. And so somebody will, will come up to the speaker and say, can you do the speech in 20 minutes, I'm really sorry, you had an hour, but the last speaker ran over over running really late. And thanks to the lunch coming up, we can't, we can't delay too much, or the food will spoil so and that's unbelievably stressful if you don't have a 20 minute version prepared. But if you do, you can smile calmly and say absolutely no problem, I can do that 20 minute version, and off you go. So that's, that's absolutely key is to have that is to have that short version. And then the other thing is to have the no technology version. Because even in this day and age, a projector can fail, sound can go out. And you'd be surprised how many speakers are completely unable to deliver a speech without their slide deck. And that's, that's just extraordinarily important to be able to do that. So it's really having three versions of the talk one, the standard one with all the technology, the second one, the talk with zero technology. And then the third one, the short version. And so that's, that's only metaphorically in the bag that you're talking about. But that's that's what I bring to every talk, those things are incredibly important.

James Taylor And if we had more time, I would love to go into the virtual This is the part you're going on to next in terms of virtual presentations is obviously a huge area as well. And some of the challenges around that. But what book would you recommend if someone is interested in this, and we're also gonna have a link to your site? So it can be one of your books, but if there was another book, it could be on storytelling, it could be on presentation or or, or something else you think would be a value to them? What would that book be? you'd recommend?

Dr. Nick Morgan Oh, there's so many that I love. Gar Reynolds wrote a classic book presentations in which is all about creating great slides. So if anybody has any questions in their minds about how to create good slides, that's still the best book out there, I believe on the subject. Robert McKee wrote a wonderful book called story, which you no doubt heard of, if if any of your listeners and viewers haven't read that book, and are serious about giving good speeches, they should read that book. The I'm the one I mentioned earlier, Joseph Campbell, a hero with 1000 faces really gets into the deep structure of that particular story, the quest and how it's told and why it resonates so much with people. And so that's a great book to get a good understanding of what you're really doing when you're telling you a quest story. So those are the those are the first three that comes to mind. Yeah, so I'll stop there.

James Taylor I mean, these are great. I love I haven't read the presentations and yet, but so many people have recommended that to me. So that's going to be on my list. So I can final question for you Nick. I What do you imagine tomorrow morning, you, you wake up and you have to start from scratch. So you have all the skills that you've acquired over the years. But you know, no one, no one knows you, you have to restart your career and what you do now? How would you restart? What would you do?

Dr. Nick Morgan Well, I would start by giving free speeches. And that is the way everybody has to start who wants to get into this business of ultimately paid public speaking. And so I would, I would join Toastmasters because I love that organization. They're, they're worldwide. They're incredibly supportive of each other the most of the individual groups that local groups have, have a theme, so find one that suits you. But that's a great way to get lots of practice. And really, that's the thing that's most important is if you want to become a speaker, then you've got to start speaking you and you've got to practice. And, and you never get enough, you should always be honing your craft.

James Taylor And if someone wants to reach out to you, maybe they're working on their first TED Talk, or they're going to be giving a big new keynote, and they could really use some some help work on working with someone, what's the best way for them to connect with you?

Dr. Nick Morgan Sure, just go to the website, www dot public words.com. And there's a contact form my email addresses on there, so we're very easy to reach.

James Taylor Well, Nick, it's been a pleasure speaking to you today. I hope when next time you're in the United Kingdom, I hope we get a chance to meet in London and we'll go to the Globe Theater together. And we'll go see some great Shakespeare together.

Dr. Nick Morgan That'd be a great pleasure. Thank you.

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