Mark Scandrette has spent over twenty years wrestling with a hard realization: knowing a lot about God doesn't mean you're good at following Jesus. Dave Kludt spent fifteen years in pastoral ministry learning that everything, down to how you arrange the chairs in a room, forms people. Together they co-teach a Doctor of Ministry cohort at Fuller Seminary built around two words: integral and embodied. Mark is the founder of Reimagine and author of Practicing the Way of Jesus and The Ninefold Path of Jesus, and a longtime friend of the podcast (he first joined us back on episode 112). Dave is the president of Reimagine's board, a former pastor of 15 years, and Mark's partner in this new cohort, a Substack, and an upcoming podcast.
IN THIS CONVERSATION:
Why "getting more information" doesn't lead to transformation, and what does
What Dave means by an "integral" approach to formation, and why it starts with facing the world's fractures honestly
What Mark means by "embodied" formation, and the Learning Lab model Reimagine uses to teach by doing
Why the leader of a Learning Lab has to be a participant, not just an expert
Moving from a "closed fist" to an "open hand" posture toward your next step
Why discomfort with failure gets in the way of formation in many churches
How Mark and Dave use the Enneagram as a formation tool, not a personality quiz
The "formation edges" Mark and Dave are each working on right now
Mark and Dave's hopes for the Fuller Doctor of Ministry cohort on integral and embodied formation
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