Taking a Step Back with Ana Wagner

Ana Wagner

Ana: I’m going to find something I really like, and now I live by the rule that I have to like what I do at least 70% of the time. I’m not going to like all of my bosses or my co-workers or every single one of my tasks or my projects, but I have to like what I do most of the time. Otherwise, it’s miserable.

Joseph: Good morning, Ana, and welcome to Career Relaunch. It’s great to have you on the show.

Ana: Hi, Joseph. Thanks for having me.

Joseph: I am hoping to talk through a few things with you today, including some of the career transitions you’ve been through and also how you’ve managed through some of the tradeoffs you’ve had to make with each of your career moves. I was hoping you could start us off by just telling me what’s been keeping you busy in your career and your life the past few weeks.

Ana: I work in B2B market strategy, and so I’ve been very busy travelling the world actually. It’s been a lot of travel and juggling with a couple of teenagers. I work for a big company in the chemical space, and so that takes a lot of my time.

Joseph: I think you also just got back from Colombia. Is that right?

Ana: That’s right. My native Colombia. I was there attending on my high school reunion.

Joseph: Very cool. Let’s just start with what you’re doing right now. You mentioned the work that you’re doing. You’re at PPG Industries. What exactly do you do there as a Global Segment Director? Maybe we’ll start there, and then I’d like to jump all the way back in time and then go through your career history.

Ana: As a Global Segment Director, I am in charge of a segment, which is Automotive Parts and Accessories Functional. It’s coatings for automotive parts that go directly into companies that actually make parts for automotive called the tiers – the tier suppliers here in Detroit. In that role, I am responsible for the long-term strategy of the segment as well as global alignment between the regions.

Joseph: Now, I’d like to go back in time because I also know that you started off in the automotive industry as an automotive engineer. Could you just tell us about your time when you started off as an automotive engineer, working, and then we can go forward from there?

Ana: Yes, absolutely. I have an undergrad in industrial engineering. That’s how I started at Ford Motor Company here in Detroit. I worked there for a few years, and then I was part of a spinoff from Ford. The parts division of Ford spun off as a company called Visteon. All in all, I was there for almost eight years.

Joseph: What happened at your eighth? What exactly happened that resulted in you moving on from Visteon?

Ana: The company had been spun off as a very large company. In 2004, it was facing decisions in terms of downsizing. I happened to be eight months pregnant. I had mentioned to my boss that I wanted to take a long maternity leave which was something that the company offered as a benefit, like up to a year. You wouldn’t come back to the same job, but you would have a job.

I had mentioned that a few weeks before, but then one day, they had massive layoffs. Hundreds of people got laid off on a Friday morning. I’ll never forget. I was eight months pregnant, sitting at my desk, and somebody came, tapped me on the shoulder, took me to a conference room where HR talked to me, gave me a folder and told me I had a few minutes to pack up my things, ‘Here’s a box,’ and they escorted me out of the building.

Joseph: Wow. That’s just like what you see in the movies pretty much. I guess there’s a couple of aspects of this that I’m interested in. I guess I’m first of all interested in what it was like to get that very sudden tap on the shoulder, that exact moment when that happened. I’m also interested in what it was like to be eight months pregnant and getting that tap on the shoulder.

Ana: I was going to say it’s horrible, pregnant or not, but it’s even more horrible when you’re not expecting it. Interestingly enough, about three weeks before, I had had a performance review that was outstanding, and I had been told I was a high potential employee and all these. Something happened in between.

I think, theories after the fact, word kind of going around that maybe I got on the wrong list. Maybe somebody was meant to really sit down with me and ask me if I wanted to take a package, but the truth of the matter is I got on the list. It’s pretty brutal. It’s pretty brutal, especially when you’re not expecting it.

That same morning, I was talking to co-workers there, ‘Come on. You’re pregnant. You’re a woman. You’re Hispanic. There’s no way.’ It happened.

Joseph: The aspect of being pregnant right before, I guess, you’re about a month out from delivery, I’m guessing that must’ve affected your psyche at that moment. I’m wondering how that might’ve affected you at that very moment.

Ana: I actually almost went into labor that day. That day was very, very difficult. I almost went into labor that day. Thankfully, I didn’t, so the baby wasn’t born too early. It was very upsetting. It was very upsetting, especially at the beginning.

Within a few days, I said, ‘Ok. This is a good opportunity. I was looking to spend a year home anyway, and here it is. I got a severance check. I’ll take this time to think things through and just actually be with my baby.’ It ended up working out in the end.

Joseph: How was maternity leave for you?

Ana: It was really nice, but at the same time—this was in my early 30’s—I was really afraid of missing out on what was happening in the workplace and missing out on skills, maybe I wasn’t gaining connections and trying to get back into the workforce later.

Joseph: My wife has been through maternity leave, and even I took a little bit of a paternity leave. On the one hand, I know it’s really nice to spend some time with your newborn baby. At the same time, as a professional, it’s hard not to think about time passing professionally. I guess in your case, you had not yet had a job that you knew you were going to back to. How did you think through getting back into the workforce, when to go back, how to reenter?

Ana: I did give myself six months. I said I’m going to give myself six months to really enjoy the baby and enjoy motherhood and adjust to the baby. This was our first baby. I have two now. I gave myself the first six months, and I thought that was a smart thing.

The nice thing about being laid off when you’re part of one of these massive layoffs and packages, at least at the time, is I got a relocation package with a relocation company. I was able, after six months, to go in to this relocation company and go through their training. The training starts by really understanding yourself, what you’d like to do, what your capabilities are, and what the right matches are.

I went through that, which was really, really helpful, and I started searching for the right thing.

Joseph: What did you end up uncovering as the next chapter in your career?

Ana: As traumatized as I was by the corporate world, I found out that I really liked what I was doing in terms of market strategy. I wanted to keep on the same line of business.

I think my attitude really changed though. How I was viewing my job really, really changed. Before, I defined myself by my title and the company I worked for. When I entered Ford, I thought for sure I was going to retire from there.

I really adjusted that view. I said, ‘I’m going to find something I really like.’ Now, I live by rule that I have to like what I do at least 70% of the time. I’m not going to like all of my bosses or my co-workers or every single one of my tasks or my projects, but I have to like what I do most of the time. Otherwise, it’s miserable.

Joseph: I think from our conversation before, you ended up moving into the chemicals industry. Is that correct?

Ana: Yes, I was in the chemical industry for about four years. You think you go through this layoff thing once, and that’s a great experience, and you learn. Seven years later, I get laid off again.

Joseph: How did that one happen, Ana?

Ana: This one was a little bit more expected. This was January of 2009 in Detroit. If you and the listeners know, this was a very tough time in the US and especially tougher for the auto industry in Detroit.

That one was a little bit more expected. The company decided to shut down a branch and close down operations in a few areas. They laid off a lot of people at the same time in one day also. I ended losing my job again. I couldn’t believe it.

This time, I took it a little bit easier. I said, ‘Oh well, let’s try to find the next thing.’ Luckily for me, within a few weeks, I had a job with a customer. People find out that you’re available. Thanks to networking, I ended up finding something.

Having said that, it was something. It wasn’t the perfect job. It was a job that I needed to make a living, but it wasn’t perfect.

Joseph: Did you find that going through the layoff, did that affect your job prospects at all? In this case, it sounds like you made a smooth transition. Did it ever come up? Do you feel like it ended up being a baggage on your resume?

The reason why I ask is I know that sometimes people listening to this show have gone through situations where they’ve been laid off or they’ve been fired. I’m just wondering, sometimes, people have a concern about how that plays out in the long run. Has this had an impact in anyway on your career in the material fashion, beyond obviously the disruption?

Ana: Sure, beyond the disruption and the pain that it is to have to go look for another job, but no, not really. I really was afraid of that, especially the first time it happened, because you’re going to get the question of the gap on your resume and what happened and why did you leave this company.

The second time, I was afraid that would happen, ‘Why did you leave all these companies? Why do you keep moving?’ In reality, no. I think everybody knows what was happening in the economy during those years, and it was a very normal thing, especially here in Detroit. So not at all. It was you were working in a big corporation, and it happens.

Joseph: I’d like to shift gears here a little bit, Ana. This show is all about career change, and we’ve talked about two situations here where it wasn’t your choice to necessarily move on from your job. I know later on in your career, you actually did make some choices, and the choices that you felt were allowing you to prioritize the aspects of your life that were important to you. Can you explain the next chapter of your career when you were at, I believe, it was Guardian Industries?

Ana: After getting laid off the second time, you basically find you get what you get. It was 2009, tough year. 2010, also very tough. I stayed where I was, but I realized it wasn’t the right thing for me. It wasn’t the right match for my values, what I wanted to do.

At the time, thanks to the experiences that I had had before, especially being let go when I was pregnant, my priorities were very clear. My family was first. I was doing a lot of traveling all over the world. I was in an environment where it was no working from home. The office was about an hour from where I live, and so it just took a toll on my family life and stress.

I decided to look for opportunities, and I was being very, very careful about the right corporate culture. I decided to take a step down. I took a step down in title. I had been a director at Guardian Industries, and I went to Dow Chemical as a manager. I also took a step down in pay a little bit, about 10%, 15% pay cut to go there. It was a very conscious decision, and I’m glad I did it.

Joseph: What were you trying to remove from your professional life, and what were you trying to add to your professional life?

Ana: I was looking for an environment that had a better work-life balance culture to begin with and more growth prospects professionally, a place where you could move to maybe different industries within the same company, serve different industries within the same company, where I could have more opportunities to move and to learn.

Joseph: What were your main concerns about taking a pay cut?

Ana: Clearly, taking a pay cut takes a toll. Maybe we will take this vacation or not, but one of the things that goes into the mix is that we are a dual career family. My husband had at the time and still has a full-time job. We were on a dual income, which was a little bit easier to make the decision that way. I don’t take that for granted. Had I been a single mom, the decision would have been probably very different.

Joseph: Do you feel that pay cut at all, on a day-to-day basis, do you feel like it has a material impact on your life?

Ana: Not as much as you think. It really was for a short time. I knew what I was doing. I knew that the prospects of the other place were better, so it might have been a year or two, but really in the big scheme of things, not a huge impact, no.

Joseph: The other things I was hoping we could talk about before we wrap up here is just some of the things that you’ve learned along the way of your career change. I would like to spend a little bit of time with this because I know we’ve gone through some quite major changes in your career quite quickly. I’m just curious about some of the things that you may have learned along the way. Was there anything that especially surprised you about being laid off?

Ana: Yeah, how really being laid off or even taking a risk—if that’s what you decide to do on your own—is really not as hurtful in the long run, especially if you have a good background, a good experience that you can count on and launch of off that. That was surprising. It really wasn’t… It really didn’t hurt me in the long run.

In fact, it’s possible that if I hadn’t been let go the first time when I was pregnant, I probably would still be there, and maybe my career trajectory would have been maybe not as exciting as it has been.

Joseph: The other thing you eluded to was the shift in your perspective on I guess what I’m going to describe as the corporate world and your attachment to your identity as part of someone who’s within that corporate world. How have your views on the corporate world, broadly speaking, evolved over time?

Ana: I know for a fact that they keep going without you, that you’re not indispensable. You’re just one person. I’ve also learned it’s business. It is not somebody being evil. It’s just the way it is.

I see myself now more as a person. I am Ana. I am a mom. I am a career person. I’m an engineer. I have an MBA. I do all these things. I see myself more as Ana Inc. Right now, I have contracted myself to one company. Maybe next year, I’ll be somewhere else.

I don’t define myself by the corporation or by the title. I also learned to put priorities first – not that I didn’t put my family first before, but even more so now. I will not miss a dance recital, and I will not miss a baseball game if I at all can help it.

Joseph: That’s a really healthy way of looking at the balance between the two. I know one of the things that people struggle with sometimes is just having so much of their identity wrapped up in their job title and their association with their company or their organization. Do you have any thoughts on how you have been able to create some healthy separation between the two? Because speaking from personal experience, sometimes it’s a little bit hard to separate yourself from the company or the organization that you work for.

Ana: It definitely is. I try to keep work where work is. Like you, I also work from home quite a bit, and I do a lot of travel. I have a space at my house that’s my office for work that has a door, and it’s closed. When my children get home from school, if they see the door closed, especially if I have a headset on my head, they know I’m working. That’s what they have learned since they were little, and so I just keep that very separate.

When I’m done, I try to turn off the computer and walk away from the office, and now I’m home. I try not to go back unless I do a lot of evening conference calls with Asia. In that case, I’ll go back. I try not to bring my computer into the kitchen and keep doing emails while I make dinner, for example. I don’t do that.

Joseph: I see. So you’ve actually created a physical separation. I’ll have to keep that in mind myself. I’m kind of bad about dabbling between the two sometimes.

Ana: I’m lucky I don’t live in a big city. I do have maybe more space than in a big city where I can’t do that. Yeah, physical separation really does help.

Joseph: What about something that you wish you had known that you now know about navigating career transitions?

Ana: The main thing for me is that it is okay to take a step back to then take three forward. It’s okay to take a risk or to pause or to make a change, because I was very afraid of doing that before.

Joseph: Finally, what about one thing you’ve learned about yourself when it comes to the balance or blend between family and work?

Ana: Probably the main thing is that, thankfully, I do believe I have my priorities straight, and it has paid off. For example, if I ever feel like I should be working through the weekend to get this done, but instead I make myself maybe not work as many hours over the weekend to get that done, and in the end, I get it done the next week.

Really understanding that you can manage time, and I do a lot of that multitasking in general but also manage a lot of projects at the same time. It’s okay to set time aside to focus on work and then set time aside to focus on your family. That I’ve learned quite a bit throughout the years.

Joseph: The last thing I was hoping to talk with you about was something we touched on at the very beginning of our chat, which was going back to your reunion down in Bogota.

I always find in interesting, the psychology of going to a reunion, where you haven’t seen people for a long time. I don’t know about you, but when I go to a reunion, it’s really hard not to think about how other people will view you and where you are in your life. What mattered and what didn’t matter when it came to sharing details about your career and your life with your former classmates?

Ana: It’s funny that you mentioned that, because it used to happen to me. Even going back home to Colombia and meeting friend I hadn’t seen for a while, you get a little bit nervous about that whole thing. This time, I just went completely as I am. It is who I am. Not that I was faking it before, but I just didn’t care about perceptions. It is who I am now.

Interestingly now, it could be because it was a 30 high school reunion, 30 years, so maybe we’re 30 years more mature. The topic almost didn’t come up as much. We were more asking about each other’s families and each other’s happiness and the children. That was really nice. That was really refreshing. It could be because we’re 30 years older now and much more mature than 10, 20 years ago.

Joseph: That’s a good point. I went to my 20-year high school reunion a while back. This was actually a few years ago. I remember coming out of it that I enjoyed the 20-year a lot more than the 10-year. I just didn’t feel like people were comparing as much during that one for whatever reason.

Ana: That was the case for me definitely.

Joseph: Interesting. Ana, thank you so much for telling us more about your career transitions. I was wondering if you’d be willing to just tell people where they can go if they want to learn more about you or to connect with you or learn more about your story.

Ana: Sure! Probably the easiest way to get a hold of me is through LinkedIn. My profile is Ana_C_Wagner.

Joseph: Thank you so much, Ana, for telling us more about your transitions and how you managed those layoffs and also how you took steps to honor the priorities in your life. I appreciate you sharing your story today. I just want to wish you the best of luck with the ongoing pursuits in your life and your career.

Ana: Thank you very much. It’s been my pleasure