Decades of cheap money has left businesses in America and Europe addicted to debt. Some companies have been borrowing cash just to dole it out to shareholders. But with interest rates now reaching levels not seen in 15 years, those debt-drunk firms are waking up to the threat of a mighty hangover.

On this week’s podcast, hosts Tom Lee-Devlin and Alice Fulwood ask if those firms can kick their debt habit. Goldman Sachs’ chief credit strategist, Lotfi Karoui, explains how companies became hooked in the first place—and what will happen when they start cutting back. And Torsten Slok from Apollo, one of the world’s largest private capital managers, tells them why the cost of borrowing isn’t likely to fall any time soon.

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