Ape Expert Frans de Waal Versus Anthropodenial

Author and primatologist Frans de Waal  talks about great apes, not-so-great humans, animal emotions and anthropodenial with Skaana (@Skaanapod) host Mark Leiren-Young (@leirenyoung).

Skaana podcasts connect you to news and experts and their discussions about environments, oceans, and orcas.

* Join the Pod......https://www.patreon.com/mobydoll

* Spotify...............www.bit.ly/spotify-skaana

* Apple Podcasts.........www.skaana.ca

* The Orca Bites Podcast (on anchor) .........www.orcabites.com

-

* Skaana home......www.skaana.org

* Skaana on Medium......www.orcatales.com

* Our Latest Orca Videos...www.jpod.news

-

* Facebook............https://www.facebook.com/skaanapod/

* Twitter...............https://twitter.com/leirenyoung

* Instagram............https://www.instagram.com/skaanapod/

Support Our Guest

For more on the life and work of Frans de Waal

* His new book - Different - what can apes teach us about sex and gender? https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/apr/17/frans-de-waal-in-other-primates-i-dont-find-the-kind-of-intolerance-we-have 

* His Ted Talk - Do Animals Have Morals http://www.ted.com/talks/frans_de_waal_do_animals_have_morals

* And here he is on Facebook

Books on Amazon and Classes

**Amazon links are affiliate links and support our podcast, thanks for clicking!

*   The Killer Whale Who Changed the World… http://amzn.to/2pRNU1q

*   Orcas Everywhere… http://www.orcaseverywhere.com

*   Paint the Ocean You Wish to See with Rayne Ellycrys Benu… digital-enlightenment.net

*   The Force of Doubt by Rayne Ellycrys Benu... https://books2read.com/forceofdoubt

Show Notes

1:30 – Intro

3:35 – Defining anthropodenial.

6:05 – Anthropomorphism and primates.

7:02 – “That's the interesting part is we are so human-centric that we can deal with facial expressions, but not with the expressions of an elephant who do a lot of things was their trunk and ears, but their face is not very mobile.”

8:31 - Are humans a “successful” species?

11:05 - On human exceptionalism. "People always want to be special."

12:40 – “If related species show similar behavior under similar circumstances, you have to use the same terminology because the psychology behind it is probably similar too.”

13:28 – How science’s relationship with anthropomorphism is changing.

14:40 - Laughing chimps.

16:15 -Why primatologists use names for apes not numbers.

17:58 - Animals and grief. "All animals that have attachments can also grieve."

20:30 -"I'm not against humanizing animals or animalizing humans."

22:49 – Survival of the kindest versus survival of the fittest.

26:00 – Talking about his book Mama’s Last Hug.